Despite what DoD officials told Congress last year, gay and lesbian families will have access to on-base housing, a Military.com story reported Friday.
The distinction is in how they get it. According to DoD officials, having a gay or lesbian partner will not qualify personnel for sponsored housing and other spousal benefits (since the federal government does not recognize their union as “marriage”). But those who have dependents, such as children, do qualify for housing just like any other servicemember, the story says.
DoD sought input from spouses on this issue via a survey in August of last year. (Did any of you take that? I didn’t receive one). At the time, an advocacy group for homosexual servicemembers put out a memo saying the survey was pointless, since DoD had already said housing wouldn’t be an issue.
From the story:
“The question does not belong in a survey on the potential impact of the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” to begin with because repeal does not create federal recognition of same-sex marriages – a requirement for qualification for on-base family housing,” the memo says. “Troops with partners, girlfriends, or boyfriends, even if long-term, are not given on-base housing. This question is both misleading of the survey taker, in that it suggests that repeal would permit gay and lesbian couples to live in on-base housing, and wholly unnecessary in a survey on the impact of repeal, because this scenario would not be a result of repeal.”
No, the repeal does not permit gay and lesbian couples to live in on-base housing by virtue of that fact alone. But it does allow those with children to do so openly.
There are several sides to this issue, many of them not about how we feel about homosexuality (such as parents faced with explaining sexuality to their children earlier than they would have liked).
Since DoD already brought it up for our discussion, what do you think about this policy change coming into your on-base neighborhood after all? Take our poll.
Please note: SpouseBUZZ doesn’t dabble in politics. Politics and military policy do intersect, and when that happens, we try to keep the focus on how (or if) the policy will affect the daily lives of military families. Please refrain from political attacks on a party, person or each other.
About Amy Bushatz
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Good. Who a servicemember loves is no one's business but theirs, and gay and lesbian servicemembers deserve to have the same privileges as everyone else. They have earned it.
I'm SOO with you on this. The gender of the person you love does not affect how you do your job, and there are plenty of heterosexuals in bad relationships that do interfere with their jobs!
Frankly, I don't care who lives next to me as long as they are a good neighbor. Regardless of your family dynamic, if you take care of your own lawn/house/fence, don't do anything to disturb my property, keep noise levels to a minimum, wave "hello" every now and then, and are generally a nice person, I would welcome you into the neighborhood with open arms!
What you do or don't do behind closed doors isn't something I concern myself with.
It's not even an issue of gay and lesbian couples having base housing. It's an issue of the children of G&L couples being provided for. Honestly, what's the difference between before DADT was repealed and now? They can serve openly. It still doesn't change that their children need a roof over their head.
Perhaps the single father living down the block is gay. What changed between then and now? Nothing. He still has to provide for his children.
My son is a year old and I try to protect him from everything I can, but by sheltering him from something like having a Gay or Lesbian neighbor, I'd only be harming him and perhaps forming hatred in him later on. My upstairs neighbor just bought a house with her girlfriend and moved out 2 days ago. There's nothing abnormal about them and I see no reason to shelter my son from them.
well ok so does the straight single father down the road can he move on base the girl he is dating ??
Charlene — yes. You can have your sister move in with you or mother or anyone else for that matter and you can become their sponsor and get them an ID card and base access.
Now, Amy, I don't believe that is correct. It just isn't as easy as that. When my MIL was in poor health we looked into becoming her "sponsor". It is not easy, nor does the Army grant it to everyone.
The only way to have a parent or sibling live in base housing and be considered a dependent is if you have legal guardianship of that family member. You have to fill out a ton of forms and must pay a percentage of their living expenses (51%). And yes, I know this as I have looked into making my mother a dependent due to her health issues but she makes too much in social security income for us to "qualify").
Linda, you are absolutely correct in your post.
I recently went through the reams and reams of paperwork to get my legally dependent father accepted as our military dependent. What a horrid paperwork nightmare.
It's not as easy as saying "this person in my dependent give them a ID card please" they want to see that you legitimately do provide for them all the way down to receipts paying for their medication co-pays… as I said total nightmare.
I don't think that's the issue at all. Unless you're immediate family, such as a spouse or you take a family member as a dependant, such as a sibling that is disabled, you're not allowed to have anyone else live in base housing. It's spelled out directly in your lease. Anyone else is considered a visitor, and they are not allowed to stay for more than 30 days at a time, otherwise you run the risk of being evicted.
As the article stated, allowing someone who is gay or lesbian to have housing still does not qualify their significant other to live in housing, as the repeal of DADT does not mean the federal government recognizes G&L marriages. It also does not qualify them for medical support such as tricare, access to military hospitals and clinics, does not qualify them for a portion of retirement etc etc. Basically, the ONLY thing DADT being repealed does, is allow them to serve openly without fear of backlash for their sexual orientation. Nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with your comment :)
If you have a child and the person who moved in is on your family care plan, they can live in housing with you regardless of relationship. There are requirements about accommodations for long term guests. There are also exceptions to policy for care providers in unique situations too. I know of a man who had another soldier's wife living in his house while her husband was deployed because she was on his FCP. Their paperwork was in order, so nobody protested.
There will always be those that cross the line of public display of affection. I dont care what you are or what you do – as long as you don't act inappropriately in front of my children. I knew when this was being talked about that this was going to open a whole new can of worms. I personally dont see how the military can recognize unions…. because each state is dealing with this separately. To live on post you have to be a dependent. If you are not married you are not a dependent and dont qualify to have unauthorized individuals living with you. Yes, I have seen exceptions to policy when you have a mother or father who is living with you and you can prove that they are your dependents. That is known as next of kin. A lover is not a next of kin and to get the post pass/id card you have to have legal documents to prove just that. Living on post is a privilege not a right… just like command sponsorship to overseas assignments. If you break the rules you lose your command sponsorship and your right to live on post. I'm sure some of us have known those who have had to send their teenager or adolescent home due to community issues. just saying…
Carol — I'm going to have to double check into the sponsorship distinction. My understanding is that you can sponsor as a dependent anyone you want — doesn't have to be immediate family (plus, how would you prove that someone is your sister, etc. if they did have that rule?).
As for getting evicted — yes, you do run the risk. But just like the rule here in the particular housing I'm currently in stating we may not use attic space as living quarters (just storage) but everyone does anyway, they likely don't strongly enforce it.
Amy, you can sponsor anyone you want onto a military installation. That only means you are responsible for their actions while they are on base. If they run a red light, you get the ticket.
As far as dependants, the only people over the age of 21 you may claim dependancy for would be a parent that you provide more than 50% support for, or a child over 21 that is incapacitated and that you also provide more than 50% support for. There is also the case where family members will take guardianship for their familys children. You must get legal guardianship, but barring severe handicap, their benefits end at a certain age.
All those situations, you must get approval for by the government. You prove someone is your parent or sibling by providing birth certificates and filling out the proper paperwork for the military.
As far as housing, it's a different issue to get evicted for having a visitor for more than 30 days than to use attic space as storage. The issue is utilities. The more people living in a home, the more utilities need to be paid. As of right now, I'm fairly positive (not 100%) that the majority of military bases still pay for your utilities. Anything over the allotted amount is paid by you at a reduced rate agreed upon by the base with the utility company. It's usually a greatly reduced rate.
If you have a visitor who's using even minimal utilities, that's still a cost coming out of the governments pocket, for someone they have no obligation to take care of.
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/secondarydependen…
This is the info for having others as your dependent. It is not easy and you have to prove they are your dependent.
Thanks for sharing that!
But it still remains true that a gay servicemember can live on base with his or her dependent child and his or her partner may live there as well … perhaps in violation of the lease.
I think that we are comparing two different situations and sets of regulations. A single parent is allowed to designate a primary caregiver for their children, and that caregiver may be authorized to live in military housing. I have seen many single military members who have a non-dependent parent live with them, acting as the primary caregiver for the children.
Unless you are dual service, a married couple does not need a primary caregiver for their children because it is presumed that the non-military spouse is capable of fulfilling those duties
In Stephanie's case, I imagine that you were trying to make your MIL a secondary dependent. Being a secondary dependent is an entirely different set of privileges, benefits and responsibilities than being a primary caregiver.
This is exactly what we're talking about — so, yes confusion is now over! Primary caregiver status is where the question is. And who is to say whether or not that primary caregiver is gay and living openly with the now living openly gay servicemember?
Yes, the above comment about a non-dependant living in housing is right — they are guests and can only visit. They cannot live in the post housing. That is why the single parent does not bring their live-in girlfriend/boyfried into quarters. The neighbors would notice. At least some (like me) would not appreciate the public display of adultary (not only a moral issues but also a UCMJ thing) and explaining to the kids what kind of relationship is happening there. And so they would lose quarters and move off-post.
However, does anyone seriously believe that a homosexual couple would be evicted from housing for violating the lease? No way. The current administration and chain of command clearly intends to make homosexuals a protected and prividged class. Anyone complaining about the situation would quickly be brought in for sensitivity training – perhaps a lot of special high-intensity training. Service members will be counseled to get their spouses under control and that hate-speech will not be allowed.
a privileged class? Or equal.
Being Gay is a Choice and Also a Sin….Enjoy your Life of Homosexuality while you can, poor children and mentally ill parents
I'm sorry, I didn't even bother to read your 5 page post after I read the first sentence. I don't lend myself to reading hateful posts from hateful people.
@ Carol, if being a follower of Christ and being respectful of God and Nature is considered hateful in your eyes then you are blind and misguided
Jess, your lambasting everyone with your bible supported hate speech…. but riddle me this of wonderful Christian…. whatever happened to "love the sinner, hate the sin"?…
Do us all a favor and take your trash somewhere else… judging by the tone of your post you probably support those a**holes from the Westboro Baptist Church who picket military funerals…. gays serving openly in our military is a fact of life and it isn't going to change, so get over it..
Okay random idiot…FYI I don’t support such evil acts such as military funeral protests and no I am not Baptist, I am a proud Catholic and no U do not hate sinners for we are all sinners but being hat is a choice and having Gays raising kids and living a domestic life amongst other families is just further teaching children of the future that being gay is natural and okay when in fact it is not…end of story
Jess, why so full of hate? If I remember correctly, Jesus bestowed nothing but love on sinners. Perhaps you should consider following the example of Christ.
you're welcome for serving your country as openly gay. you're welcome for the freedoms i risk my life for that we don't yet have. I'm a christian too. i love everybody equally.
Honestly I don’t understand how children being placed in this situation isnt considered a form of child abuse. Imagine if by accident little Sally or Little Johnny walk in on their gay parents engaging in sexual intercourse! I feel sad for these children and I pray for their souls and little eyes to be spared of any evil act such as this.
Because walking in on their heterosexual parents is that much better? Yeesh woman! You're a poor example of a proud catholic, and trust me, I know a few…
@jess its funny how you claim to be a child of GOD but you pass judgement….God is love and the last time i read the bible i know i remember seeing something like every one is accountable for their own sins so why is it that you are so worried about what goes on in someones house hold better yet their bed room.? christian? maybe you need to re evaluate yourself and your teachings!! God is the only one who will pass judgement not u.
Oh really? You read something somewhere? Care to tell me exactly where that is? You probably can't because you're repeating what you've heard from someone..somewhere..sometime. The Bible calls us to make Biblically sound judgements, as in right and wrong. So when she quotes Scripture to back up what she's saying, she's correct in that the Bible condemns sexual immorality. Not just homosexuality, but adultery and fornication as well. It is true, we will all be accountable for our sin, however, if you open up to the book of Jude you will find The letter of Jude warns against those who, having gained admission to the church, were perverting the grace of God, denying “our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ”. Jude used Old Testament examples to warn of these “blemishes” on the church. He wrote multiple denunciations of these ungodly people who “defile the flesh” and “reject authority” He urged Christians to continue in godliness and love toward such people, in some cases reasoning with them, in other cases “snatching them out of the fire”
Most of all, Jude teaches us that we are to share our faith, in love, with grace and gentleness.
To the rest of you trying to turn the Bible on her, without truly knowing what you're talking about, do yourself a favor and just shut up. You look like a idiot.
Only one person can judge GAYS and that is God so you need to keep ur i feels sorry o your self. Also what do you thik door locks are for. i have friends who are gay and their kids are fine with it. Also niether one of them turned out to be gay so feel sorry for yourself for post such crap.
You know what i will enjoy my life because being myself if what my family and school taught me growing up. I am in school to be a doctor and i only have 4 more months to go and im a lesbian. When people get sick you know were they go. To the doctors office. I still want to help people but people like you can't see passed one's sexually orentation. I have a soon to be army wife in boot camp as we speak ready to serve the U.S. lol( laugh out loud) people with no hearts
God doesnt hate homosexuals Jess, the lord only hates you:)
I do not agree with this, is all I am going to say.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing with it, so please folks, please think about that before you downrate. Sarah at least didn't toss insults liberally at people and use hateful speech.
I can respect someone who has enough self respect to let their opinion be known in the face of all of those who oppose their point of view.
My personal view is that those who want to serve should be able to do so with dignity and honor. When I was in the military, I served with gay men and lesbians who were outstanding soldiers and who I was lucky to count as friends. My husband currently serves with soldiers who are homosexual and they deserve to be able to live openly.
It is important to note in this debate that this is NOT A CHANGE TO POLICY. The briefing specifically stated that base policies "regarding live-in child care providers or other non-dependents living in base housing should be followed for the same-sex partner." Thus, "this is my boyfriend/girlfriend, give them a key" is not sufficient.
Thus, if a person would be authorized to live in base housing as a non-dependent live-in caregiver, then that status cannot be denied because they are also the same sex partner of the servicemember. Thus, the only change is that a benefit that is already extended to straight members is also now guaranteed to gay members.
Sounds fair to me.
Unfortunately, the linked article from Military.com begins with a direct contradiction to what was in the official Pentagon Working Group Report [PWGR] regarding benefit options for gay military couples post actual repeal. It clearly stated that there is NOTHING in federal law in relation to "base housing" or "military housing" that would trigger DOMA. However, the authors, unfortunately, recommended that the DoD NOT use its legal perogative to allow same gender couples [without "dependents"] access, allegedly because it would be unfair to unmarried straight couples who are also denied access, is clearly going to be followed indefinitely. The simple fact, of course, is that a straight couple can get legally married while in 45 of our states gay couples cannot.
Per the PWG Report, emphasis mine: "Current Service POLICIES state that non-dependents are not allowed to reside in military family housing. We do not recommend any changes to those policies, other than to state that any exception to policy to allow a non-dependent to reside in military family housing, be administered without regard to sexual orientation." Continued below….
CONTINUED: It is “private-sector/community housing,” or “military privatized housing"—on or off base—that triggers DOMA because of the use of the word "spouse" in the definitions of qualifying "dependents" for such housing benefit. The main point of the article, however, is supported by the PWG Report, albeit in slightly different language, and found in one of the teaching vignettes in the "Support Plan for Implementation" about a lesbian service member who, after adopting a child asks to have both the child and her partner, as "primary care provider," live with her in military housing. ANSWER:
"You should inform the Service member that because she has a qualifying dependent son that she is indeed authorized Military Family Housing. Local policies regarding live-in child care providers or other
non-dependents living in base housing should be followed for the same-sex partner."
Finally, given some commenting don't seem to understand gays CAN be biological parents, it seems they need some remedial training in the proverbial facts of life.
If a service member has children then they are already qualified for housing regardless of whether they are gay, straight, or bisexual. The repeal of DADT does not affect housing policy. Again, if they have kids already, they already qualify for on-post housing.
The only issue with this is whether or not the same-sex spouse will be allowed to live with the service member. If they have a second parent adoption then it's probable, but if they don't have the second parent adoption it's likely they will not be allowed to live in the installation.
God help us all…
Hmmm…I disagree with this as well.
SPOUSE (marriage) = husband (man) + wife (woman)
Just because society says how you live behind closed doors is no ones business doesn't mean I have to agree with it or encourage/embrace it. Call it whatever you like…I call it wrong.
To allow an unmarried couple to take housing that my family could possibly need when we get to our next duty station, is just wrong in my opinion. One of the benefits to marrying a service member is post housing. Giving housing to an unmarried couple (no matter sexual preference) just says to me that the sanctity of marriage and the benefits that come with it, no longer hold the same value or respect as it used to.
The question isn't about unmarried couples, it's literally only about a man or woman who has a child being eligible for housing. Regardless of sexual orientation, a married or unmarried soldier is qualified for housing if they have a biological or adopted child.
The title is a bit misleading but it's spelled out in paragraph two :o) I agree with your sentiment on general principal though.
Girlfriends and boyfriends of servicemembers already live on-base. Where's the outrage?
"No, the repeal does not permit gay and lesbian couples to live in on-base housing by virtue of that fact alone. But it does allow those with children to do so openly."
That's not necessarily true. That would be like saying a soldier who has a child with his girlfriend and is afforded on post housing by virtue of having full-time custody of the child can also house the mother of the child also. Not so. Only the soldier (service member) and the authorized dependent are permitted to occupy on post housing. The way the story is worded makes it seem like homosexuals and lesbians are going to be living together in on post housing because there's a child in the picture. The same rules regarding who has custody of a child for heterosexuals also applies in this scenario for homosexuals and lesbians as well. Now, what happens off post is a different story.
Base housing officials will respect what's on the adoption order, regardless if both parents are of the same sex. I think you were off track, but certainly walking up to the track.
Jake — thanks for your thoughtful input on this topic. You'll note that some of the folks commenting above assume that people with GF/BF living in their housing on base have their housing revoked. I know that is more than likely not the case. What housing office pays that much attention? Neighbors would have to tattle, and that's not likely in most circumstances. People just don't care that much.
Nosy neighbors abound in housing.
However, because single parents can designate a person on their family care plans to be a caregiver for their child, the other person doesn't have to be adopted. The paperwork has to be in order.
I was able to get an exception to policy to allow a full time caregiver to live with my family to help care for my family due to unusual circumstances, and we are a two parent household. It wasn't hard. There are already soldiers using this loophole to allow their g/f and b/f to live with them. They don't have to disclose their relationship to get the exception to policy. It is mostly g/f of male soldiers that I know of that have done this.
to be an adoptive parent*
My wife is currently goin through boot camp. I had a child in a past relationship n now my wife has joint custody. I'm not quite sure but some of these post make it seem as if our daughter can live on base w my wife but I cant because I am a woman also. We planned to move with her when she got stationed but we dont kno if we can live with her or not. Does anyone kno if we all can live together on or off base or not?
You can live together off post, but not if she gets posted overseas unless you get an independant visa to be in the country. If she has custody of the child, the child can live with her on post, but you can't.
I'm a soon to be Army Wife and I think what some people are saying about Gay's and Lebian's are just wrong. Homosexual's needs the same respect and treatment that is giving to straight couples. We are still people and we still have a heart just like any other people who serves in the Army. All my soon to be army wife wants is to be able to serve openly with out a problem. Also were not bad people and i'm sure Gay's or lesbian's havent did any thing to people to make them feel like that toward them/me you feel that way from the hole in your heart. You know some of the doctor's that heal you are gay, some of the teachers that teach your kids are gay. I really don't understand people's heart. I think i speak for gay's and lesbian's when i say this If being my self is wrong and then im sorry i don't want to be right. You know growing up in school or even some parents teach it at home that discrimination is wrong and that's exactly what some of the people on here are doing…. IM HAPPY WITH WHO I AM…
@jess IM A LESBIAN AND I AM VERY FOND OF THE BILBE I STILL READ IT AND GO TO CHURCH GOD knows my heart and what i stand for so i don't have to prove anything to you. Your a nobody and from the looks of things you really do need GOD.
My sister-in-law is a lesbian and I love that woman to death! It does make me sad some of the things people say and act toward lesbians/gays.
But…
You should just ignore people like that. Don't read it, don't reply, don't give them that attention or satisfaction!!
So, can the Partner of a Air Force come live with him in Base when he gets stationed?
I don't agree with this I do not in any way support gays or lesbian you can call me narrow minded if you want but this is just my belief if they can not be married in every state this should not be honored I will not be happy having to explain to my son why the kid next door or across the street has two moms and two dads bash my beliefs if you want but I will not back down there are many others that also believe in my point of view and may be just choosing not to voice there beliefs
Punctuation is our friend…
okay but say for example you have a gay couple who both have kids…are the kids of your spouse entitled to all the same benefits as the kids of the individual in the military?
I am a single mother of 2 and have someone who is a permanent caregiver to both my children for transporation and childcare while I am at work if i choose to live on base when i PCS does anyone know for sure if they can come with me to live on base and still continue to care for my children? Currently right now i am living off base in South Carolina so as of right now i dont have the issue but i believe i will be faced with one when i PCS. Anyone with information would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.