There’s been a lot of chatter over the past few years about the disconnect between civilians and the military community. I do believe that there is a huge disconnect, but I also believe it’s not entirely a bad thing. One day I hope to flush out my thoughts on this subject here. For now, I’d like to discuss the entitlement culture. Or rather, I’d like to pose a question. Has the pendulum swung from military families being humbled and grateful for the strong sense of support they receive from the general public, to them feeling entitled?
I recently read a letter to the editor by Theodore Perkins which began with this:
I have recently become aware of something that I find both disturbing and annoying: Many who serve as the current crop of U.S. military are not the brave, honest, upstanding citizens who we have come to admire and respect. I don’t mean that this applies to ALL military; God knows that such a generalization would be offensive and insulting to those that do serve their country with pride, and who actually are forthright and upstanding citizens. I should explain …
In recent conversations with local business people, service providers, and neighbors, it has come to our attention that a growing percentage of the current crop of service people (and their spouses/significant others; more about them in a few) are in many ways no better than the gang members and criminals who the services try to weed out. For that, the blame falls squarely on us, the John Q and Joan Q Public of this country. It seems that the surge of pride and patriotism of the last few years has created a nasty side effect – a demonstrative attitude of Entitlement and Superiority on the part of our trusted military and their families.
I would encourage you to read the entire piece. For starters, I think we can stipulate, as does the author, that isolated pockets of bad behavior should not rub off on an entire community. It’s never a good idea to paint with a broad brush. However, after I chewed on this letter for a while, I began to recall a few examples which made me wonder if the pendulum is creeping a bit.
Last year, I had a conversation with a military spouse who thought it was a good idea to boycott a local business because they withdrew a military discount which they had offered for several years. My position was that the business never had to offer the discount in the first place and that the economy is very bad and businesses and families are necessarily cutting back. I thought it a bad idea, and unfair, to cause a stir.
Fast forward a few months where I was attending a Military Appreciation event and heard a speaker tell a group of military spouses that if a store doesn’t offer a discount, we should go in and demand it because we “deserve” it. Although I admired the speaker and enjoyed the rest of the speech, I cringed at that statement. There’s a difference between inquiring and demanding.
More recently was the Sears Heroes at Home incident. So many of us were embarrassed by the behavior of those who lost sight of the fact that this was a gracious gift on behalf of Sears.
Without question, military service is a unique occupation. World events orchestrated by very bad actors always place us at the mercy of those bad actors. And politicians. When a decision is made to go to war, the effects of that decision will be overwhelmingly shouldered by military families. Yes, service members volunteer, but that doesn’t make the load any less heavy to bear. And while I feel America should be grateful that we have men and women who willingly place their lives on the line to protect their country, there’s a very distinct line between accepting appreciation and expecting entitlements.
Mr. Perkins ends with this:
Now, I do have to clarify this somewhat. Don’t misunderstand, I am not saying that all military personnel an their families are like this; far from it! And I have heard stories of older military (both active and retired) giving a much needed “dressing-down” to the disrespectful youth. But I have seen this bad behavior too often lately to wonder where it went wrong; when did respect and thankfulness for a job well done become an excuse for “gimmee, gimmee gimmee”?
I just needed to get this off of my chest. With a few exceptions, I still have the highest respect for our military personnel; to quote Winston Churchill: “Never was so much owed by so many to so few.”
I’m sorry that Mr. Perkins and those in his community have been subjected to inappropriate demands and behavior by those in our community. In no way do I believe that the majority of military families expect special treatment, but unfortunately perceptions are formed by the snapshots each of us are exposed to. And when more of those snapshots are of bad behavior than good, it’s easy to see how resentment can build, fairly or otherwise. So while I pulled out a few snapshots of my own when writing this post, that’s because I’ve only recently begun to see these types of examples. For those concerned with the military/civilian divide, this should be a distressing development.
I’m not convinced the overall tide is changing. Perhaps the bad apples simply leave a larger footprint than the good ones. For every example I’ve cited above, I can cite dozens of conversations with milspouses who have been appalled at such behavior. But if indeed the pendulum has swung in the direction of entitlement — or even if it is swinging — we will never build bridges between our communities.
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Comments
Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only one seeing this! I'm a military spouse, but I'm also former active USAF and currently ANG. I belong to several Facebook wives groups and get gobsmacked so often by how many wives I see acting like spoilt princesses who expect people to give them everything on a silver platter just because of who they're married to. The base housing page is the worst with wives throwing complete tantrums over having to pull their own weeds or walk an extra 3 feet to pick up their paper or having to wait an unthinkable 3 hours for maintenance to come and fix something. I can't help but wonder if the majority went straight from high school to marrying their milspouse with absolutely no experience out in the civilian world where…gods forbid….you have to mow your own lawn and do your own maintenance on your house (or call someone to do it and pay a good chunk of money for it). More (silly word limits)>>
We just moved from a non-military city to a large Army base and the difference in the attitude of the military and spouses is like night and day. The people at the Guard bases/armories in our own town work hand-in-hand with the community with alot of appreciation for each other. Military discounts, perks, and community events are not seen as expected things that we're entitled to, but a privilege and gift…and likewise, the community gratefully gives alot back to the military in turn. Someone getting upset over not getting a military discount is a definite rarity (sure we may grumble a bit every now and again and wish that more businesses would give a discount, but as a whole, we're highly appreciative of those businesses that do, realizing that they don't have to…especially since it's not a military town). More>>
I have to agree with you. Seems the whole world feels " entitled " to all and everything these days. It was not this way in 1974 when my spouse retired after 23 years of active service. If you had a complaint you kept it to yourself. In those days it would not look good for your spouse and everything went into their records and negative things didn't bode well for promotion.
The whole Sears debacle was highly embarassing and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Sears decided not to do it again next year. If people insist on treating companies who are trying their best to support the military like their efforts are unappreciated, then there's a good chance they'll decide that they no longer wish to support the military.
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Agreed entirely.
I completely agree that military families should never demand special treatment but as far as sears i haven't had the best respect for the company. I went in to buy my husband a welcome home gift from his year long, when i asked if they had a military discount the sales associate actually told me like "why your alreday getting it on sale, and no we don't have one." I was kind of shocked that i was treated like I was looking for a handout. I don't blame the company but I wouldn't want to shop at that particular store anytime soon.
Extremely great and valid points! You said what I have been hoping and praying, that the "whining princesses" are in the minority. Unfortunately, at our base, they make a GREAT amount of noise for being a tiny minority and it causes the rest of us nothing but headache and heartache. On a base of thousands, a hundred or so have thrown a serious cog in the machine and we all suffer for it.
Being from a military family, 3 generations worth. I know how people feel when they do make the sacrifice. Also though, the sacrifice is made out of personal choice. And personal choice is left for everyone one else to "treat" the ones who demand cause they sacrifice. I am a huge supporter for the American Armed Services, I am not supporting those who wish to only capitalize on a chosen sacrifice.
Spouses of military members are still just as human as any other spouse and thereby, no more or less entitled to the same things. I think as a spouse who has been/is also military myself, I get a little annoyed when spouses act as though they are entitled to the same things/respect as the military member his/herself and start raising Caine when they don't get it. Unless you signed on the dotted line and put the uniform on, you are a civilian…no different than the spouse of a banker, police officer, corporate president, restaurant owner, etc. Harsh? Maybe…but I think that there are plenty of spouses out there who need a serious wake-up call.
I agree with the majority of your post except this last part. Why is a spouse not entitled to the same respect as a military member? I am not entitled to all the "perks" of being a military member because I've not served, but I am absolutely by NO means not entitled to the same respect my husband is.
That mentality comes from a "respect is earned, not given" point of view which automatically dehumanizes people as being less than deserving of something because they haven't done certain things with their lives or up to YOUR expectation, or proven themselves to YOU. It's bull dinky. Frankly, it's part of what leads people to believe they are better than others. Are you better than me because you've served and I'm "just a spouse"? Does the guy who wears a uniform deserve more respect than I do because of the simple fact that he wears it, even though he was caught with a 16 year old having sex? How about the guy who shot up Ft.Hood? Does he deserve more respect than I do because he was a military member? No. Respect should be given to every human on the same level until they do something to lose it.
I don't have to earn your respect. You absolutely get my thanks for serving, but you deserve no more respect than the "just a civilian" who stayed behind to raise a family as a single parent.
Why is a spouse not entitled to the same respect as a military member?
Because you didn't get shot at! Because you didn't get before sun came up and go to be long after it went down in a cold foreign place! Because you didn't get yelled and physically broken like we did.,..
My Spouse is an equal because she is a disabled veteran. She can tell you being a military wife is THE EASIEST GIG EVER!>>> GET OVER IT … sleeping with a troop doesn't make you one. I had a marine girldfirend tell me the other day that "F—ing a marine made you one". Im sick of this crap.
The guy living in the dorms at Ft.Hood that's registered as a sex offender didn't get shot at either. Does the simple virtue of having gone through basic entitle him to more respect than any other human? Does having a military ID card entitle him to more than any other human?
Before you tell me to "get over it", please go back and re-read my statement. I never said sleeping with a troop made me one. I said that EVERY human deserves the same basic respect, that not one job or another "entitles" anyone to anything.
Being a cop doesn't entitle an officer to go speeding through traffic in his off hours just BECAUSE he's a cop. Being a fireman who risks his life doesn't entitle him to more respect than the single mom raising 3 kids after her husband was killed in a car accident that that very fireman pulled his body out of.
Feeling entitled doesn't extend to JUST military families. The bottom line is that while I despise this line of argument, you chose your job. You get thanks for doing your job and the title of hero in my book, just like cops and firemen.. but NOBODY is entitled to anything more BECAUSE of the job you chose. I chose to be a military wife, that doesn't entitle me to discounts and it most certainly doesn't entitle me to be pissy if someone doesn't offer it.
"Does the simple virtue of having gone through basic entitle him to more respect than any other human?"
YES IT DOES.. anyone who serves, army guard whatever.. has at one point written the US Government a blank check for everything up to his/her life for the service of the Nation. If you haven't made that sacrifice you don't get the honor!
Ok. That's your choice if you'd like to think yourself better than any other human on the planet and more deserving and entitled than anyone else. You do realize that it puts you in the same category as Hassan and that schmuck (I really wasn't lying about this) who lives at Ft Hood in the barracks that's a registered sex offender, right? Because they also went through basic.
Oh, and the guys that were just convicted of sport killing people while deployed and collected trophies of victims fingers.
Oh, and the Airman from this base where I'm at that went home and tried to kill his girlfriend and his girlfriends lover but failed horribly, then came back and shot up a night club parking lot.
Or the active duty girl here recently that cut up a civilian at a club with a broken beer bottle resulting in the civilian girl getting over 1,000 stitches in her face.
Oh, I forgot about the 'epidemic' of military rape perpetrated by fine, upstanding and entitled military members.
All those people are upstanding citizens JUST because they went through basic. Give me a break. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN is entitled to the same basic respect until they do something to not deserve it. Going through basic doesn't give YOU or ANYONE the right to be entitled JUST because you went through basic.
Being a member of the military does not make you super human and more deserving, just like those examples I gave does not make every member of the military a bad person. There are good and bad, but no one, not even you oh mighty one, deserves more respect than joe schmoe as a human being.
I agree. And about the blank check on the other post, it is much easier to die and fight than lose a loved one and live with that, and keeping the memories alive for the rest of your children’s life. Raising four kids five and under for a year alone is a lot more than a doctors wife does. I don’t expect entitlements nor do I even remember to ask about a discount most of the time. But don’t try to tell me that wondering if my kids father will come home safe is any less hard than a military member has it. My husband has told people HIMSELF that he wouldn’t ever be able to go through what I have here at home and that it’s “much easier being deployed.”
That wasn’t for the commenter directly above this one. I agree with you.
I "hold down the fort" while my husband is gone so to speak, but it is my husband who serves, not me. I don't ever forget that, and I think it downplays what he does to say so, but that's just me. I know the whole idea that we serve back home as we take care of the kids and business as usual, but again…it is my husband that serves.
You're proving my point here, just in reverse. No, I don't deserve any more respect than you or your husband or Joe Blow on the street. The point here is that there are spouses out there who believe they deserve *more* respect than other civilian wives based solely on the fact that their husband is in the military.
I absolutely agree. The only part I took issue with was when you said "I get a little annoyed when spouses act as though they are entitled to the same things/respect as the military member his/herself", nothing else.
I whole heartedly approve if someone wants to offer my husband a discount because he's military. It's saying "Thank you for your service", but I don't expect the same. In fact, I don't think I've ever asked for a discount or taken advantage of one that didn't involve a coupon lol I never go with my husband into auto zone because I'm the money manager so I usually have the debit card and I feel uncomfortable with my husband saying "oh yea! military discount please" because they offer it and I'm the one swiping the card. I just wait out in the vehicle and give him the card.
Sorry I wasn't clearer on that. I wasn't referring to basic human respect, but more the whole "respect for the military serviceman/woman" respect. I've heard of plenty of wives who act like they wear their husband's rank/position and expect others, civilian and military, to treat them as though *they* are higher-ranking than everyone else as well…or get all riled up if their military spouse is offered something and they're not.
I don’t think I need or deserve the same entitlements. What does annoy me is that people tell me to tell him thank you and sometimes I would like to be told thank you. All I do is keep the home going but at the same time it is more than what the general population goes through. I don’t think a thank you for missing your husband and supporting him is too much.
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO AT HOME!!!
Easily 40+ years ago you had the Col or Base Commander's wife (not all, but enough) thinking that she wore the uniform. Cutting in line at the bx, demanding things because of who her husband was. Some things never change.
If anything, the military has cut back on what it had 50 years ago, from medical care, to Space-A.
Usually though if there were problems with the young troops, there were more than enough things form picking up litter to working in the mess hall to adjust the attitude as needed.
There are alot of spouses that do need a wake up call but I have to say we are different than a civilian spouse. Most civilian spouses dont wake up alone for months or a year at a time. Does that make me feel like I deserve or are entitled to more things or respect no not by any means. When talking to people and they ask if Im in the service I tell them, "I didnt sign that dotted line, I signed another one." If they want to treat me differently then that is of their own doing, I do not demand it of them. I am proud of the service that my husband provides and after 13 years of being around all the military I do find that I stand straighter and hold my head high because of that.
I am a military wife and have served in Iraq I would trade my husband in a heart beat and before you say anything like I must have sat on a fob the whole time let me tell you I have been shot at ieds have went off on my truck mortars have come down so close to me I am lucky to be alive but sitting waiting for a 2 min phone call to make sure my husband is still alive kills me praying my kids don’t get sick cause I can’t miss anymore school or work or I will be fired sucks my family lives over a 1000 miles away and my friends have their own lives I say again I would trade my husband places in a heart beat I’m not saying that being over seas is not hard cause it was but hoping I don’t get the call that the love of my life is dead is harder so I know military wives deserve respect yea their whinny some of them can suck but I will never belittle the way they feel.
So when a service-member is killed in the line of duty how is that "NO DIFFERENT" than the corporate president's wife or banker or restaurant owner job. I am a military spouse and I don't ask for favors but I think you have crossed the line to think that service-member families are the same as civilian families. I DID have to sign "on the dotted line" when my husband enlisted. Civilian families have no concept of combat deployment is like and the toll it take on the entire family. So when their 9-5 husbands come home from work to 2.5 kids and dog to a home cooked dinner and still complains that the house is a mess and the kids are loud, many service-member families around the country are just waiting hoping to see if today they will get a call or email or letter that all is well and for some that day never comes. BECAUSE IT'S THE SERVICE-MEMBER TO IS OUT THERE RISKING HIS LIFE FOR THEIR FREEDOM. SOME DIE SOME COME HOME BATTERED, BEATEN AND BROKEN. BUT THERE CHIN IS STILL HELD HIGH WITH PRIDE.
Amen!!! Thank you for telling it like it is.
I have been a military ex wife and current wife of a retired !00% disabled retiree for over 30 years. I NEVER thought I was entitled.
The only thing you or we are entitled to is respect just like the the rest of the people in the US.
It's like they say If the military wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one.
The wives today have no idea what it is really like to be a military wife. I do.
Thank you for this. I know this article and ordeal was written quite some time ago but I can't seem to feel that all I see is this going on. It is getting worse and you deserve some major respect for voicing the opinion and I am thankful I am not the only one getting this impression.
This has been a long time coming. The FRG experience buttresses the notion in many ways, spoonfeeding people information and giving free childcare and so on and so on. People mistake the generosity and intent as obligatory and somehow due them. I've seen it often in the past 20+ years I've been a military spouse. For example, when asked to arrange and/or pay for care for their own children in order to attend a meeting, some spouses will cry foul, complaining that "they" should be taking care of it, etc. Who "they" is is never specified but always refers to someone other than the complainers themselves. The MyCAA program is another example. It's an expensive offering to the military spouse community, one that's utterly unnecessary and in many ways utterly counterproductive to keeping troops serving longer, but when problems arose with it the howl that this "entitlement" was endangered was quite loud.
I have to agree in your ideas about MyCAA I worked for the navy education office and one time had a wife complain for 30 min about how it was not fair that she could not afford to go to school. I worked her threw getting FASFA and Student loans, but she insisted she should get to use her husbands GI bill or his TA, I took all I had to ask her if I should send in a note wiht my student loan payment this year saying I was noi londer responsible for my student loan because my husband was in the navy.
However I feel as if alot of it is a genrational gap, many ( not all) young people today act as if everything is this world is for them and should be handed to them without hard work.
this is a hard one for me. we are the new generation of military. and yes… i think there has been some entitlment. BUT it has came with the territory. us and/or our spouses have been at war for 10 years and we get paid VERY little for what we do. so when it comes to something like a discount, i dont personally feel that it HAS to be given to me. but i have walked out of a store over one. for example: i knew old navy had a discount, but didnt know it was subject to certain days. i had a cart full, and when i asked for the discount i was told its only on the first of the month. my response was "im not spending all this money in here when i can go across the isle and get the same thing minus 10%." and i put it back and left. it wasnt meant to look like entitlment, but it was about money. we dont make alot. so i will get that discount wherever i can. lol. and i do think our small 1% deserves it. we keep our country what it is… free. for very little pay.
let me clarify, that the only time i show "entitlment" is in a situation like this. i dont agree with the how these members/spouses behaved in the article. with wars came "quantity over quality" and unfortunately we have had quite a few bad apples. it came with the territory. i dont appreciate anyone behaving that badly. but i do think our country owes us something, and i would never be quiet about that. or sugar coat it. our spouses do alot and they deserve more. i dont appreciate how it was stated in the article about how we sit back and get all the perks. our perks arent that good for what we are doing. and that was offensive. but i understand that the writer was offended. but dont talk about us getting alot…. because its definately not enough.
Jessica, our country owes YOU nothing. It is not a "we" thing, unless you, yourself is also serving in the military. And yes, the perks that the military gets are so much better than out in the civilian world (even better than my union benefits)…
Milspouses deserve no more recognition than the spouse of a physician, police officer, corrections officer, nurse, store manager <you get my drift>
Military benefits SHOULD be better than your Union benefits. When you put your life on the line you should get better benefits. After all, you don’t deal with bullets, IEDs, and artillery and mortar attacks at the plant.
Jill, when was the last time your husband went on a 14 months business trip? I am grateful that we get advantages as spouses but very few non military folks can really imagine what it is to live 400 days alone with little or no help from anyone. I'm considering asking my husband to leave the military because of how hard it is on me his spouse and our kids. Maybe then, more bankers and plumbers can enlist and protect our freedom.
Kamila, I was a milspouse….my husband was gone alot and I had no family to help me, either. But I was not the one who served, that was my husband – any perks that I got/get is through him and his service, not because I felt entitled to it.
While the husband is deployed there is help for military spouses. I am a 13 year disabled combat veteran myself, I know for a fact there are institutions on post that are set up for the spouses. The military isnt for most wives, thats why there is such a high divorce rate. A lot of bankers and plumbers have served in the military at one time or another, that is why they are not in now. The civilians hating us because a snotty majority of new military feel they are deserved whatever because they send their loved one off to war that others wont go to. Everyone has a choice just like you had a choice to marry a military man. I have seen the bad, during the clinton administration we didnt get paid for 6 months and i have seen the good when people are getting 20k dollar sign on bonus tax free for reenlisting in a combat zone. Simply said, if its in the contract you deserve it anything that you receive outside that is a blessing.
I wonder if you realize how little the service-members make. As a E-3 my husband made $0.25 hr. yes I said Twenty five cents an hour. (FYI E-3 is a Third Class which means there where service-members making less per hour) so when we get discount or tax free merchandise it help put clothes on our children and food on our tables. What you seem to be forgetting is that the spouses at home are the ones doing the shopping and taking care of things so the SERVICE-MEMBER can go to war without worrying if the bills will be paid and the kids will be feed and clothed. By default giving the service-member families benefits in turn is a thank you directly to the service-member. <you get my drift>
Uh, E-3 is definitely not a 3rd Class! Ha ha, that is a Seaman. E-4 would be 3rd Class my friend.
Are you including the tax free housing and clothing pay that you receive? I think military does pretty well. My husbands an E-6 with 12 years in and we make around 75K a year. Not too shabby when there aren't many jobs paying that in the cilivian world.
Jessica,
In my humble and honest opinion, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!! You are not owed or entitled to anything. You need to remember that it is our SPOUSES – the MILITARY SERVICE MEMBERS NOT US, who signed to join and defend our country, our freedom. THEY are the ones putting their lives on the line and making the sacrifice for all of us NOT YOU. We as wives/husbands, are along for the ride. This is a choice we made. We were never forced to marry, love, support them in their job in this life. And also, wives whose husbands are certain rank do get assistance (WIC, AIRMANS ATTIC, other items that others don't get nor would we want.). And it is the new generation that this seems to be more prominent in demanding entitlement. If you are having financial difficulties, because your spouse doesn't make enough, manage your money better and get a job if you don't have one. And please stop behaving like an entitled idiot and start showing some respect for our MILITARY SERVICE MEMBERS as THEY are the ones working hard and making the sacrifices for our country. NOT YOU!!! It's pitiful!!
Jessica.. Oh, Jessica.. You clearly do not have any kind of grasp on the true value of the pay and benefits that a military member has. The attitude that you have is sheltered and almost ignorant of the reality of the current economical state of the country and it's workforce right now..
Military members make an OBSCENE amount of money when compared to their civilian counterparts. You take an 18 year old with ZERO formal education, throw him/her into a full time job with amazing benefits including housing, 100% healthcare for themselves and their dependents, yearly COLA, and reenlistment bonuses.. Just look at one of the many military-to-civilian calculators.
http://calculator.gijobs.com/
My husband is an E6 with almost 20 years in, to maintain the same standard of living that we currently have now, he would have to get a job making $94,219.68 annually. Pretty tough considering he can't do anything except turn a wrench. Sweetheart, you have no idea how good you have it.
Oh man I can't agree with you more. I've had words with complaining spouses a number of times over the years. My favorite are the ones that complain about the health care. It amazes and ticks me off how someone can complain about waiting ten minutes or those that are just rude to the PA's or Pharmacy folk. I usually start off with, "I'm assuming you've never had to provide for your own private health insurance…never had to pay a $500 plus a month fee for the privilege of waiting for an hour in a doctors office then paying them your $30 co pay for the visit and then had to go pay your $25-$100 copy for the prescription at the pharmacy that you have to wait an additional hour or two at"? That usually leaves them sputtering. Hell my BIRTH CONTROL was 125 a month on the high end insurance offered through my job because they don't make it in generic.
Yes. This. And yes. My husband's an E-3 and we calulated his total "worth" for a year of service. He would need to pull in over $50k/year for us to have the same lifestyle we have now. Before he joined up he was making $10/hr because he didn't go to college. People whining about how little military members get paid are either totally ignorant to the realities of getting by in America, or they're only considering base pay and not all those extras like housing, health care…things that would otherwise cost tens of thousands of dollars each year out of pocket.
Seriously, we do have it good compared to so many people out there.
Maybe you could be a little more condesending sweetheart. Maybe you're the one who doesn't have a good grasp on reality. A private with a family is most likeyly on food stamps. Not everyone recieves COLA. Reenlistment bonuses depend on your job and needs of the army. If a soldier even recieves a bonus its usually not for much. By the way, why is your husband only an E-6 with almost 20 years? No matter. I have to get back to my life of leisure and luxury as a military spouse.
Annoyed, you said “not everyone received COLA” COLA is “Cost of living adjustment” every military member receives a COLA each year usually 1.4 to 3% of pay; I bet you meant to say “BAH” Basic Allowance for Housing”. If they live off-post then all Soldiers get BAH because they pay rent, if they live on-post then they don’t get BAH but don’t pay rent and their rent is free. Yes, unfortunately there are some private E1/2/3 on food stamps but usually they have three or more kids and are in a special situation. Not all married Private E1/2/3 are on food stamps and not all privates are married. I will have to ask, what is the private’s spouse doing all-day while their military husband or wife is at work? Are they working to help pay the bills and put food on the table or are they sitting around the house all day watching TV. I say this respectfully because I had seen many soldiers PVT to SGT have the best cell phone, fastest car, newest laptop, cable TV with a 1000 channels, eat out at the bugger bar every day instead of the mess-hall where its free then complained that they don’t make enough money to live on. Sometimes it’s a spending thing not an income thing.
COLA is given to those residing in hawaii, alaska, and anywhere outside the unoted states. but not where itd be considered "state side". and if it is given… its labeled something else. and we still recieve BAH as our income. its just taken out before our check comes. so your mistaken on both accounts.
Paul, when I mentioned COLA it wasn't the yearly adjustment, but the monthly amount some people recieve depending on where they live. I realize that not all privates are married with multiple children. I was only speaking about the ones who are in that situation. I know what you are saying about single privates who have money to spare. You are definately correct about most people having a spending problem, not a lack of income. As for a spouse sitting around watching TV all day its not okay. I don't doubt that it happens, but I don't think its the norm. Please consider for a moment though that in order for a family with mulitple young children to be able to afford full day child care the wife has to have a substantial income.
When you move so frequently it becomes challenging to find meaningful employment or establish well paying careers. I'm sure that there are many wives who would like to financially contribute to the family and can't. Others sacrifice evenings or weekends to make a few bucks while the husband watches the kids for free. Everyones situation is different. Its my personal opinion that military families are not rolling in dough. Most can make a comfortable life for themselves and family, but they aren't rich people. As for anyone who would think that military people are rich or spoiled they probably live and have lived their entire life lower on the socioeconomic scale.
We only got COLA when we were stationed overseas. I believe it's only when you are not stateside.
Usually the wives are at home taking care of the children because they just PCS'd for the millionth time and can't pick another job back up. Hence the reason there are SOO many home businesses like photography, Mary Kay, ect. sprouting up all over military communities. I certainly would not jump to discussing military wives sitting on the couch all day when that is insulting and a VERY touchy topic for us. It's not easy to find jobs when you move around so much.
I am currently an active duty Army Sergeant. Most Privates on food stamp don't even need them. They get them because they are able (food stamps are determined on base pay and doesn't include BAH or special pay) and they don't care who is actually paying for their "free" food. Sure I'm a Sergeant but I have $0 in credit card debt, a growing retirement fund, a new car in the driveway, a happy and healthy family whom I take to a good restaurant on occasion. My wife stays at home and takes care of our child and house. After all this I can still put money away in the savings account. You know how? It's because we don't piss our money away on stupid toys, i.e.: I phones, 24" rims, 100 pairs of shoes, or eating out every day. I love the military and I don't know what I would do without this career. I just wish all these "poor" Soldiers would set their priorities straight and take care of their families and not their image.
is your husband a national guard or ready reservist?
What are you talking about? What do you mean very little pay? Service members most certainly do not "make bank", but compared to the rest of the US, they are doing pretty darn good. Yes, they sacrifice, would it be nice to get a little extra, of course, but right now, in our economy, just being employed is something to be grateful for. My husband supports our family by serving in the military, all of our basic need are covered, plus a little extra. Also, joining the service, is a service, and if you have an expectation that everyone owns you something, then you are not serving anyone but yourself. Also, think about what you just wrote, Old Navy offers a discount once a month, so you only will shop there unless they give YOU a discount. The discount is a gift, an offer of thanks.
Jessica Thank you for your service but I disagree with you. You said that “we don’t make a lot” if you think you don’t make enough then get out of the military and get a real job. Last time I looked (I was in for 25 years) let see we get
•Base pay,
•Housing allowance (BAH) or free on base hosing,
•Food allowance,
•Clothing allowance,
•Free Medical, Dental, and Vision.
•Education allowance such as Tuition Assistant for Active Duty that pays for collage up to $4,000 a year, and “The 911 GI Bill” that pays 100% of collage tuition plus BAH payments of $1300 a month for three years, and $1000 Books allowance per year.
Special allowance
•Jump pay,
•Hostile fire pay (when deployed),
•Hardship pay (when deployed over 30 days),
•Family separation pay (When Deployed over 30 Days)
•No federal income tax (when deployed in a combat zone
You also get a lower cost and no tax at all AAFES PX/BX and Commissary. Did I leave anything else out, oh ya I forgot retirement pay, 50% or more of your base pay for the rest of your life if you stay for 20 or more years plus lower cost medical insurance with Tricare Prime.
Paul,
While you are correct on the amount of pay it is not retirement pay, the correct term is retainer pay. This term is correct because until the age of 65 you can recalled back to active duty, if you sign a waiver you can come back after the age of 65 under specific conditions.
V/R
dadda321
I agree with everything you said Paul, but I will say that the AAFES and PX way overcharge for their products so the tax free thing doesn't really mean much when it comes to that. I was highly disappointed when we were stationed in Korea. We had to shop online because AAFES had products significantly higher than you could get them in most retail stores in America.
you apparently arent aware how little that adds up to. when i apply for WIC they take it ALL into consideration and we still qualify. thats right… with soooo many extras how could that be?? WE qualify for government assistance?!! no way! its not that much. id like it to be…. but its not. my husband had a great job before he joined. and we left it all behind so that he could do this. what he LOVES and WANTS to do. but coming from doing less and making more, to this. he is doing MUCH more and making MUCH less. i can see with out my rose colored glasses on. its not as much as it SHOULD be. im grateful for what we get and have. but HE deserves more for what he does. and i desrve respect for what i do.
With the rest of the country struggling to make ends meet and the economy in the toilet military families are not the only ones feeling the pinch. You should be more humble and GRATEFUL for what you for do get instead of angry because you didn't get something. My wife, daughter and I survive on my meager E-4 pay and what she makes part time. I would much rather have our family in this situation than being out on the economy trying to find work and supporting them. There are many families that work around the clock to support there families and they give it there all with out any special recognition. Please show a little grace and thank you for your families service.
You only count base pay (the BAH, clothing, food, utility allowances are not disclosed.). So, you're wrong. But you already know that.
Isn't that the truth! Well said Paul!!
don't forget the part of the salary that is not taxed BAH and seperate rations
Are you in the military? By your post, it seems like you are representing yourself as a military member.
no, but i do knoow its not just spouses on this forum. so i was trying to clarify all. and not just a spouse.
Jessica, you are not in the military an you're not a spouse? So, where are you getting your information? Please confirm the facts before you post them. I was in the military for 21 years. I am still a member of the "system" through my retirement and I keep up-to-date on the pay and benefits.
If, perhaps, you ARE a military spouse, I'd love to hear your comments when you are on the "other side of the fence" as a civilian spouse. I'm getting the feeling that you qualify as one of those "grass is always greener" dependapotomuses that my nephew (currently serving in the Air Force with his wife) talks about.
ill reply to all. i just meant for what we are doing. i didnt say that i dont appreciate what we get…. just that i think our families DO deserve more. our military members back our country. and we back our military members. and without them doing what they do our country would be a completely different place. i think its ridiculous every time i get in line to use WIC. i cant believe that my husband is deployed, fighting a war and i still qualify for government assistance. that bothers me. and why i was offended by the "all the perks" comment. because sure… we get good health coverage and sure we get housing. but even with BAH (which is included in our income when being approved for WIC) we still qualify for the assistance. it makes me mad every time i stand in that line. all the perks do not add up at the end of the month. but i DO appreciate what there is. we just really do deserve more. i cant believe so many of you dont think we do deserve more. im actually really surprised.
and i tried to clarify that i dont excuse poor behavior. we have a MORAL obligation to behave a certain way. and act like adults. but when "quantity over quality" came into play we got quite a few bad apples. and sometimes i have a bad day. where i need to do this, this and this…. and im on bed rest. but my husbands unit is insisting he go to the field. and blah blah blah,… all those other HORRIBLE army spouse days where i want to shout at someone… or anything really. but i dont. and thats where we have to be adults. but not all members are. i do know of horrible experiences. and i dont excuse them. but when it comes to something like a discount… i dont feel like its owed to me. but i will spend my money where its given. over spending it where its not. thats not entitlment to me. thats common sense, or being thrifty. i dont think its appropriate to just ditch an apartment. or yell at a cashier. but in certain circumstances im ok with looking like im entitled. and thats where the discount example was coming from.
I am well aware of the qualifications to be approved for WIC. I'm just wondering what rank your husband is, what state you live in, and how many kids you have. So as not to over inflate the numbers, I'll assume he is an E-3 with 2 years of service and that you are at Fort Bragg. As an E-3 with 2 years of service, I will also assume that you have 1 child, because that is the average that the housing standard for an E-3's BAH is based on.
So, your husband's annual pay would be $22068. His annual BAH with dependents at Fort Bragg (not a high cost area) would be $11880. That totals $33948.
The WIC standard for a family of 3 is currently $34281. The difference is only $333 per year. Bear in mind that the WIC standard is applicable for ALL 48 CONTIGUOUS UNITED STATES. That means if, for example, you are living in the Washington, DC area (a high cost area), you would no longer be eligible. Your BAH would suddenly jump to $21348 per year and your total "income" would be $43416. At that income level, you wouldn't even be eligible for WIC if you had 2 children.
If your husband is an E-3 with two years of service and you have more than 2 kids, perhaps you should have considered that BEFORE he joined the military. Or maybe you should have thought of that before you started having kids. The military offers terrific FREE medical care including birth control.
And if you think that YOUR job as a spouse is "the hardest job in the military," as I've seen on bumper stickers and t-shirts, think again. You're not the one getting shot at. You're not the one out there on the battlefield, TARMAC, submarine, ship, PT field, comm center, etc. at Oh-Dark-Thirty, rain or shine, trying to support the family and protect the nation. Your attitude does those proud men and women serving this country a great disservice.
you obviously arent a retired first sgt because then you would know that our health care is NOT free. and that we actually have to pay monthly for both health and dental. and if you are retired… then you should be well aware of that :) and no, im not on the battle field. im at home. alone. having to take care of bills, and children, and everything that come with sustaining a household. on my own because we are actually stationed over seas. so i have no help. i also have to cry every night that i dont get a phone call because im scared to do death that it may have been my husband on that convoy that CNN is reporting about. its a hard job. and whats the saying assumptions only make you look like…. yeah. im very aware of birth control. me and my husband were together for years before his service. no children when he joined. did not have children until 2 years in when after 5 miscarriages i became pg with our FIRST child. we now have 2 beautiful girls and i am fixed. so to assume im some undereducated, ignorant wife. sitting on my rear doing nothing but bearing children only makes you sound like an idiot for stereo typing me.
and my husband didnt join for the pay, or the benefits. he joined because he wanted to do MORE. he wanted to serve his country. he loves his job. he loves his country. and he will never leave bececause he is proud of what he is doing. he made alot more outside of the miltary doing alot less. its not about the money. its about what he does for how little he gets. to say our military members and their familes DONT deserve more is OUTRAGIOUS and i can not believe anyone is making this argument. i cant believe that there are still people in america who think that "its enough".
I am retired (an SFC, not 1SG, as I did put in my signature) and I do not pay a monthly fee for medical care. I elect to use TRICARE Standard rather than TRICARE Prime. I also elect not to use the TRICARE sponsored dental program and use another program that I also pay for. So, again, check your facts.
I've been stationed overseas with an exceptional family member. I had to serve my country, pay the bills, worry about my family, and do all those "other really hard things" you are enumerating MYSELF in most cases. Sorry you have to do that. If you didn't want to be a military spouse, you and your husband should have thought about that before joining.
So, what you are saying is that your husband is NOT an E-3 with two years of service, right? You still haven't answered the essential questions that would give a bit of credence to the fact that you "need WIC" to survive and that you are getting it based on his salary. Evidently, not only are you a dependapotomus, you are a quibbling liar.
You seem to be the one categorizing yourself as undereducated and ignorant. You are behaving like the "stereotype," why should you not be viewed in this way?
i didnt answer becaus i dont need to. my husband has been in 4 years and is E4 promotable. he has gotten a rank a year because he is good at what he does. and loves what he does. he came in with nothing and has worked his way up. which is what he'll continue to do for 20 more years. and your facts arent correct because i do have to get approved, here on post, every 6 months for WIC. with his deployment pay. you said that i must of had kids before he joined, and dont i know about birth control. im stating that i know all about our health care system, as i have had to use it alot. and i know all about birth control. and to assume my husband joined because we had children was idiotic. he joined because he wanted to do more. do something he loved. and to be proud about what he does. and this is it.
i dont complain about our life. but to tell me im wrong for thinking we desrve more makes me very angry. because we do. and i absolutely deal with hardships righte along with him. if you ask him he'll tell you my job is harder then his. what he does is natural to him. its not natural, nor easy, trying to be super women and take care everything we have to when our spouse are gone. im offended that you served in our services and think the way you do.
If you are having financial problem you need to go to the ACS (Army Community Service) they can help you with setting up a house hold budget or financial plan. They also have a loan closet and can loan you household items (usually overseas only) or just talk to you over a cup of coffee if you are stress out. If there is an imminent financial problem then you need to contact AER (Army Emergency Relief) they can set you up with a low or no interest rate loan or grant for food or emergencies. I take it from your posting you are alone overseas and your husband is deployed, being in the Army means that you are not alone, there are many programs in the Army that civilians don’t have. Likewise, did you contact your husband’s FRG (family support group?) Your husband unit or post Chaplin or the mental health clinic? They all can help and assist you. If you don’t know what to do because of your husband deployment of need more information please email me at sfcham@yahoo.com and I will try to help or direct you where to go.
Jessica is your husband active duty? The last time I looked, if your active duty, health care is free for the military member and his family, no cost share or monthly payment, if you are paying for health care you must be going off base to a civilian doctor and not using your military benefits. I suggest you need to reassess your needs.
he does not, our families however do. it may be "new army" thing. but its something me and all my other wives noticed, and discussed. because it is a common misconception, when you first realize it you run to your closest friend and ask "is this right". but it is :)
Using Tricare Standard for the past 10 years we've paid only for Tricare dental. It is just over $30 a month for two of us. And I just checked the LES, there's not Tricare coming out of our pay, just dental. You do, however, have Tricare Prime overseas. But you still don't pay for it because it's not something you elected to have, it's something you must have.
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I've been a military spouse for years and I've never noticed we had to pay anything for medical care. Where are you seeing that? I would say that if your husband doesn't have a college degree and makes over 30K you should feel very lucky. I have friends in the civilian word whose husbands are having to take jobs at minimum wage who HAVE degrees because the economy is so bad. AND some of the money we get is tax free.
read below about why this stupid internet argument kept going. we do very well for what he makes. and i make it work. i got offended by the fact someone felt as though we were owed nothing. or that our families do not matter, or that we go through nothing at all. because deployments are so rosy! lol. it wasnt meant to be a pitty party but rather break down our supposed perks and make it more obvious that it really isnt all that much. our perks do consist of things like ACS and MWR, BOSS for single soldiers. but those things that equal out at the end of the month. and thats why i was defending the discount. thank you though!
Jessica, as a military spouse I beg to differ with you. I have checked my husband's LES for the last 4 years and we have never had to pay for Tricare. Dental is a miniscule amount compared to the real world – $24 to cover the whole family. I have been through separations and while I run the house, raise my kids, and worry incessantly I don't think my job is harder than my husband's. My life is not on the line and I am still in my comfortable, warm home with my friends and kids. Your attitude is the one that gives military spouses a bad name.
lol. yes… i give them a bad name. because how dare i defend the fact that i feel we deserve more. no where did i intend to complain. the comments on pay came after someone tried to tell ME how much my husband makes. and the i tried to say that actually no… it not all that much. and heres why. like i said, the point was lost with all of offensive after commenting. i dont give spouses a bad name. i have never depended on the company, ive never yelles at a sgt or the frg, ive never broken a lease (like in the article) i have never done anything to behave poorly. all i did was defend the fact that i think my husband deserves more. we have great prorgrams, that i use and love like ACS. that is a perk. but we do not have financial perks and thats why the discount gets used. all i was trying to say.
You need to get rid of your I'm entitled attitude. You need to get a job and you should have thought about having children if you're hard up on money and need public assistance. My husband is a Military service member, and the both of us worked very hard and got our finances in order before finally having children and the ability for me not to work. And we do not go out seeking handouts and public assistance as though we are entitled. I also don't use my husbands occupation as an excuse to be an ignorant, entitled, freeloading, whining little snot!
Amen, Brother Retired SFC!! I couldn't have put it better myself. Respect to the Military Service Men & Women!!
I would just like to point out (for those that may not know, including you Jessica) that WIC is available to ANYONE. It does NOT go by your income like other government assistance programs. You could make !0,000 a year or 100,000 and STILL GET WIC. So when you say that you "feel ridiculous" every time you are in the checkout line using your WIC, you should have some research because it doesnt matter what you make, ANYONE can get it.
Our MILITARY SERVICE MEMBERS deserve more. For YOU to be more respectful to them. Not to behave as though your are owed!
Jessica – If you think you get little pay now, you missed the bad old days and should be REALLY happy you did. Military pay climbed substantially over the past decade plus compared to previous decades. As for the rest of your post I found myself cringing as I read it because in it I hear exactly what the author of this article was talking about. You DO display an attitude of "entitlement". The whole idea of "our country ows us something" is an entitlement attitude. No it doesn't. It's NICE if the people in the country recognize what we do in the military and the sacrifices we and our families make, but they do not OWE that to us.
The military is still a JOB. It has the side benefit of allowing those of us who serve/served to serve our country but bottom line is if you are in the military for the pay or benefits then you are getting everything you are "owed" when you get your check or use the base hospital, etc.
Yes Jessica – YOU have an entitlement attitude and I'm afraid, like others, I am seeing this more and more, especially from spouses.
if what i said is entitlment then i AM. i do not think what i said was rude, ignorant, and anywhere close to wrong. if you take our income, its more then the figure im going to give you. but its easiest with a well rounded number of $30,000. my husband makes $3.42 an hour based on him being expected to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. and he absolutely has pulled several all nighters. all nighters into all nighters. and while deployed they sleep only a few hours because thats their job… to work around the clock. so for me to say we deserve more, i feel absolutely justified in that. as i said before, i have NEVER been rude. i have never expected anyone, be it a cashier at some store, my landlord, our frg, or a sgt, to be at my becking call. and the wives with that behavior are absolutely out of line. but its ridiculous for anyone to think we get enough. or make enough. because we dont. we absolutely deserve more.
In my humble opinion, YOU'RE AN IDIOT!! And you do behave like those other idiot wives – just like them. And if your husband makes more than the well rounded figure of 30,000, then he makes plenty and you need to manage your finances better. And that is a load of garbage that your husband makes 3.42/hr. My husband is in the service and does not work 24/7. If need be, and he is called upon outside his regular work hours, then he goes to do what is needed of him like all the other service members. I don't know of any military service members who work 24/7.
Well said john!!
Not for nothing, but if I was struggling with making ends meet, having to apply for WIC, etc. The last place I think I'd shop is Old Navy. Discount or not. There are some great thrift stores in the area where you can get the same clothing at a much more DISCOUNTED price. Priorities are the biggest problem with society today. We think we're entitled to discounts because we want to have the things we WANT, not the things we NEED. Old Navy clothing is not a NEED. But, if you choose to shop there, make sure you have the money to pay for it without pitching a fit about them not offering a discount. It's only a matter of time before they throw their hands up in frustration and take that away as well.
we arent struggling. and i do very well with our finances. but i do well because i do things like use a discount when i can. the whole point (which was lost LOONNNNGGG ago) was that i can see where the man in the article was coming from. because i have done/said something that looked ridiculous from the outside. but on the inside, where its coming from, is that here i am in this life. and i gotta make do with what i can. and if we have a little extra and i go to the mall, im still going to try and save where i can. and im POSITIVE that it came off as entitlment. but thats not what my intention at the time was. i went into all the other things because i was trying to justify myself. which i should have never done. i tried to make a point about feeling like we get little for such a large job. and then all the offensives insued about how us spouses dont do anything blah blah…
it wasnt meant to be about the struggle my poor little family goes through. but that when you see entitlment maybe you should think about where its coming from. not that itd matter to these people because they think we are owed nothing for keeping our spouses safe so that they can keep them safe. and i said SEVERAL times that there is a line and that we should know how to behave. and i dont agree with the people in the article behaved. rather it shouldnt all be looked at the same way. some entitlments come from a good place. but all that was lost.
Jessica, don't worry, I totally understand what you are saying. I try not to complain, but after the fifth move (twice overseas) I think milspouses are entitled to feel gyped. I do. I don't care what these people are saying because they are sounding really condescending and ignorant. It's not like nobody is allowed to feel like they are worth more… at any point of their lives. Whatever. Just because we'd like a break now and then, it doesn't make us evil people. We deal with **** just like everyone else. And when life is good – we are just as grateful. Will you just stop hating on this girl? GEEEEEEEZZZ.
here we go again.. you were eligible for WIC because not all of your entitlements are counted for as income. I have seen SSGTs on WIC. Give me a break! You know darn well if they can go to the shoppette and load up on BOOZE that they could choose to not buy the Jack Daniels and buy their baby some formula.
Jessica, I'm sorry to see that so many people have jumped all over your every word and most likely have failed to understand what you are saying. The paycheck and beneifts may be your husbands, but it is considered "family" income. As a wife all you are trying to do is make the "family" money strectch. You are correct in saying that we don't make a lot of money. Choosing to shop where the best deals are is only common sense. I think people want to assume that you have thrown a hissy fit when all you've done is taken your "family" money somewhere else. Some people are just looking for a place to spew their hate and frustration and for some reason you've become a target. Good luck and God Bless you and your family.
thanks :) i thought about walking away from the argument all together. but it actually REALLY upsets that people in america view us this way. and i do understand that with in our community SOME have earned the eye roll. lol. but when it comes to what we make. or a discount i shop around i shouldnt be called entitled. and i would give anything to have the world understand what it is we actually go through. and most spouses never state their oppinion because THIS happens. or we look like we are complaining but how could we complain, after all… we signed up for this. its not a complaint. i just want the respect that our familie deserves…. so i guess i will keep the argument going if anyone chooses to respond again. lol
I am a military spouse Jessica!! However, it is my husband serving this country, not me. I feel no entitlement what so ever. I feel we should be respectful and supportive of our service members. Not behaving in a spoiled/entitled manner. How old are you? I think you have a lack of knowledge/wisdom/class/maturity and I get the impression that you are unpleasant and have no regard for our service members or anyone. It's what everyone can do for you!! This is just my honest and humble opinion. I will pray for you and I will pray for those who have to put up with you and the kind of behavior you display.
To Quote… "i knew old navy had a discount, but didnt know it was subject to certain days. i had a cart full, and when i asked for the discount i was told its only on the first of the month. my response was "im not spending all this money in here when i can go across the isle and get the same thing minus 10%." and i put it back and left."
The people behind you trying to provide for there family, probably makes less works hard but doesn't expect any discounts. Attitudes like yours make us all look bad.
so thats what everyones mad about. lol. youd never know with the rudness. what i said was meant to be "i wouldnt have shopped here in the first place on that specific day". and why i tried clarifying it was because i KNOW that it came off as entitlment. so i can see where the man in the article was coming from. but that wasnt meant to be entitlment. i was fully aware of how it looked when i said it. and i get the entitlment thing. but why i had those feeling at that time are what has been said above.
john – you are an idiot. you make YOURSELF look bad by saying an ignorant comment like "probably makes less works hard but doesn't expect"….really?! SHE IS SAYING SHE DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FULL PRICE FOR THOSE PARTICULAR ITEMS, THAT SHE WILL GET THE ITEMS AT A DISCOUNT BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FULL PRICE. HELLO???
All she was saying was that there was a discount she knew she was eligible for and she wanted to come back when she could use it. I would do the same, and I HAVE done the same. I got a coupon for Chili's but it said it couldn't be used on holiday's. We went on a holiday and I walked in and asked if I could use it that day. They said no..I said "Great thanks, we'll come back on Monday". You are taking what she aid out of proportion.
That is garbage. I too have a husband who is a military service member. And I too try to make the dollar stretch because we have 2 children and I no longer work. However, we've managed our finances appropriately to begin with and spend within reason. We look for sales/deals/coupons and such to help out here and there. However, in no way do I feel I'm entitled or that I deserve handouts, or that I'm owed anything.
On what you consider very little pay, my husband and I have gone from living in rat and roach infested studio apartments to a three bedroom home. I have gone from cleaning hotel rooms to being a stay at home mom. He has gone from flipping burgers to doing a job he loves in a mostly safe, clean environment. We have paid off the credit cards we used to use to buy food. We have paid off our cars and have gone from liability to full coverage insurance. Our girls have college funds. We are paying off student loans. We have money in the bank and our cabinets are overflowing with food. In the nearly two years that my husband, an E-4, has been in the military he has changed our lives with his “very little” pay. If you can’t live on that pay, YOU are doing something wrong.
i didnt say i/we couldnt live on it. what i said was that i feel like we deserve more for what our spouses and our families go through. we do very well. we are on the other end where he took a pay cut joining but did it because this is what he wanted to do. and i personally feel that compared to what he was doing before, his job is MUCH harder. he works WAY longer hours. and every single soldier and their families deserve more. thats what was in the original post that everyone got heated about. and i cant believe that any spouse would think that their husband doesnt deserve more for what he is doing.
A job my husband love, steady pay raises, opportunity for advancement, free health care (which with kids and preexisting conditions is like being given pure gold), free housing or the money to find housing and cover utilities, extra pay when my husband is away from us or in a dangerous area, commissary privleges, spouse programs to help me find a job if I choose or someone to
check on me and my new baby while my husband is deployed, free or no cost childcare.
What more could I possibly expect?
I certainly can’t think of anything. I just can’t understand why you are complaining because your husband enjoys his job and you can live comfortably on the money. That is the American dream.
* low cost childcare.
OMFG, wait.. YOURE A SPOUSE not AD?? /eyeroll I can not even deal with this. You're a spouse talking about "we keep the country safe" bwahahaha.. wowzers. Okay.. walking away from this post now since it just derailed completely.
But how much MORE are you talking about? What are you wanting? Your husband probably doesn't have a degree from what I surmise, but makes decent money for his education level, you get low cost childcare, free pre-school (for us in Texas), free healthcare, access to SOOO many free resources you would normally have to pay for..such as psychologists, lawyers, tax assistors, ect. REALLY low cost food at the commissary. What the crap MORE do you want?
It sounds like some Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University at work, there, Rock On! Dave completely changed our financial, and with it, the rest of our lives!
That's great Bonnie!! That's what I like to hear!! People who work hard, earn their way, manage their finances properly, and take care of their families!! Kudos :)
BS. It's called money management and if you enlisted thinking you were going to get rich, then you obviously did not do your homework. The military does get paid well, and with a housing benefit, utility money AND insurance. Go work a civilian job and see "how well off your are".. And let's not even get started on the NON TAXABLE COMBAT ZONE PAY.. pfft, and to sit there and say you are too poor because you're military. NO you're too poor because you think filling your cart to the brim at Old Navy is only acceptable with a 10% discount. SMH How about you manage your money and not go on shopping sprees unless you have budgeted it in?
I take back my last comment seeings how I did not realize you were a spouse. I am still chuckling over this one. You posted your initial comments as if you were the active duty member.. "We keep this country safe" lawl.. unless you wake up and put on a military uniform (and no, not his abu's made into a dress) then you do NOT keep the country safe. Your husband does. This is precisely why the world thinks military wives feel entitled. Stop grouping yourself in with HIM as if you both serve the Govt. Unless you put your hand up and swore to uphold the UCMJ and to devote your life to the military then you are NOT in the same category of your husband. You can choose to walk away at any point whereas, he can not. If his pay is not stretching enough, I might suggest looking for employment yourself. Then when you have your own identity, you will understand why the rest of us get so irked at comments like your own. Being married to a military member is not the same as being military yourself. Learn the difference and think about that before you go posting on a site and thus make yourself look the way you appear on this page.
Amen, Sister Stacey!!
It's hard to draw a line at times. I am the first to ask at check-out whether there is a military or student discount. If not, oh well, nothing lost by asking, right? The Sears thing was embarrassing to say the least, but I still don't view the majority of us as entitled. I think the ones who ARE, just tend to have the louder appearance and thus get noticed more. And it's really not so much a military-specific phenomenon, it is a nation-wide issue. Being in college as a more *ahem* seasoned student, I encounter this "gimme" culture almost every day, starting with young adults demanding free food and ending with demands of grade adjustments and the idea that one doesn't EARN an A, one DESERVES it just for showing up to class a few times. But of course like everything regarding the military, issues like this entitlement nature are blown out of proportion and scrutinized a lot more than in the civilian world…
I agree with Petra. It's not just a milspouse thing, it's a "younger" generation thing. I, too, will ask for military or student discount – if I get it, hey, it's a bonus; if I don't – oh well. Nothing is owed to me because my husband served or because my son is serving.
And Jessica, honey, I hate to break it to you – but NOBODY OWES YOU anything. I owe your husband a thank you for serving, just as I owe one to my husband and son, but I owe ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to YOU! No said thank you to me for being a milspouse, I never asked for it, and certainly never DEMANDED it. I was not the one who served – that was my husband…I married him knowing that he'd be gone for periods of time, and that I'd be raising my children myself. If you didn't realize that when you married him, then you are just ignorant.
@ Jessica what exactly do you feel you are deserved…your country owes you nothing. The last time I checked it was the active duty member who signed on the dotted line, risking his/her life and that is the person who deserves more. Do I feel like I deserve more because my husband goes to war, there are cops that are killed on a daily basis fighting this country's wars on the streets and their wives don't expect more.
Marryanne – Thank you for proudly supporting your husband's service, and thank you for not wearing HIS rank on your sleeve. You are the military spouse that military supervisors dream of. Thank you!!!
thier wives SHOULD expect more. its an epidemic in america. to treat those who serve the most, the worst. whats going on now with DOD taking such a huge hit in the debt is a great example. the burden is placed on our familes to keep our country the way it is. ANY civil service FAMILY has the right to stand up and say that they deserve more…. because they do
Jessica, YOU DO NOT SERVE. Your husband, if you are a military spouse, is the one who serves. And "CIVIL SERVICE" refers to the service responsible for the public administration of the government of a country. It EXCLUDES the legislative, judicial, and military branches. Members of the civil service have no official political allegiance and are not generally affected by changes of governments. Please get your terminology straight. If you are going to "speak with authority," please become an authority on that about which you speak.
im talking about cops, firefighters, paramedics and the other men and women who serve our country directly through hardships. other then our military familes. because we arent the only ones. and it would be ignorant to assume we are the only people in this country with such a burden. but i will, and their familes should, stand up for themselves. what they go through everyday deserves more. sorry for the wrong term. but i think you got what i meant. ;)
So what is it exactly that "we" deserve?
Get a life you miserable troll. Find another way to get off other than nit picking at people. Sounds like this girl is just trying to share her point of view and you are attacking her personally. If you are so great why don't you offer constructive advice instead of verbally assualting her and tearing her down. You were probably a piss poor leader. You probably never helped anyone but yourself. You sound like a true stripe wearer, Not a retired NCO. Find somewhere else to make yourself feel better than others.
I'm a disabled vet, and i totally agree. We should reinstitute the draft because that worked out so well. I mean it was fair right?? Everyone received a number, and n politics right?? And i stopped asking for military discounts, unless my wife asks for me. She watches out for my money because i forget things. Oh yeah, where was I. Oh yes. Feel free to institute women into combat missions too, because they have equal rights. Oh, and maybe to really afford college, we should get rid of football, because that's the real problem. Do you see my point yet?? Look at expenses for college for anyone not in the military or veteran capacity? And I guy who gets a discount? If the business can afford it, is it right to honor those who have "cared for his widows and orphans." Little message on the VA wall i saw last time in to see the Doc, sorry! Yes we have an entitlement problem. We also have a priority problem in America! Take a closer look at the cause rather than the affect! Or is that effect? I get things backwards too. Thanks again listners, God bless all public service people, not just the cops, ST Miike! Peace.
Why should spouses be entitled to anything? Because you got married to someone? I think this is along the same vein as "all military wives cheat" and "all military marriages fail. There are just enough that do, that it seems like that is the standard. However, I see it in the civilian world as well. Just recently a local store gave away wedding dresses to service members and their fiances. When a local news channel posted the story to face book there was an uproar of " Why not me." and "We give them way too much." and a backlash of military spouses saying "We deserve it." and "We work hard.". It got down to name calling and it was shameful. I'm not perfect, sometimes I will shop where I know there is a discount over another store but I don't feel entitled to anything just because my husband does a certain job.
@Jessica, compared to the civilian world service members get paid well with extensive benefits on top of that. I have no idea why you think that the pay is "VERY little".
Military receives no overtime!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are underpaid.
I think my husband gets paid very fairly. Yes if it was ONLY his base pay that would be too little. But when you consider that he gets over 1300 a month to pay our rent and utilities, he gets 300 a month for his food, sea pay, medical insurance for myself and our two children, all of which is completely tax free. Then our family has commissary privileges which cuts our grocery bill in half, as well as access to base amenities, and support programs. THAT is more than enough. Before my husband joined the Navy he was working at Walmart and between the two of us we were barely making 1000 a month. Now, we are actually able to put money into savings. To me his pay is more than enough. If you can't live on the pay, perhaps you are living beyond your means?
Not to mention, we can afford for me to be a stay at home mother. Which never would happen if he wasn't getting paid fairly.
MMC,
No way…I need to talk to someone about this…after 23 years and no overtime!!!!
TY! very well said.
@Jessica… You said twice that "we" don't make much or "we" get paid very litte. Unless you are referring to your own job, I think that distinction of who is actually in the military is already blurred, and I think that's where a lot of the feelings of entitlement come from when it comes to certain military spouses. I always ask if the store offers a military discount when I check out as well, but if they don't, I still buy the items as planned. I view the discount as an extra perk and don't expect it.
I also don't think that I, as a military spouse, "deserve" anything from this country. I signed up to be a military spouse; nobody forced me. Yes, I do think that appreciation and more awareness from the rest of the country would be nice, but the only thing I "deserve" for being a military spouse is the respect and appreciation I get from my husband while supporting him behind the scenes.
I feel sorry for those wives out there who’s husbands consider it their money and not yours even before I started working I considered it our money because were married what’s mine is yours and yours is mine right
There is a difference between sharing the money you make because you're married and acting like you're the one who earned it. My husband gets paid each month on the 1st and the 15th, not me. Yes, the money goes to pay our bills, groceries, but I know that it isn't me who gets up at 5 am every morning to do PT, spends days in the field, and of course deploys for a year at a time. I guess it's easier for me to say all of that because I have my own job that contributes to our family fund. I feel sorry for the husbands whose wives spend their whole paychecks on needless items.
All of this “Entitlements feelings” will change when the new military drawdown starts. The Army is losing 50,000 Active duty soldiers within the next two years, all together Obama and Congress want to trim the active duty end strength by a total of 200,000 Soldiers, Airman, Sailors, and Marines. Moreover, I was in the last drawdown in the 1990s and it was brutal and a wake-up call.
How was it a wake up call Paul?( I really want to know because my DH may be facing an ERB from the Navy)
And honestly I’m sick of everyone demanding that they get discounts and this &that these stores owe me something because I am married to someone in the military.
It's a wake up call because they're going to be looking hard at people with less than stellar performance. A lot of people do "just enough" to stay under the radar and not get into trouble. Just recently (back in May I think?) the air force had DOS rollback (date of separation) where they kicked out a ton of people for multiple failed PT tests, 1 article 15, behavior or performance issues, etc.
At some point those numbers are going to be dwindled to such where they're going to start looking at people who are just staying afloat… doing "just enough" to get by. That's the wake up call.. for those who just skim by to actually put the work in.
I don't know much about Navy operations, but what a quick google search told me was that an ERB is simply due to overmanning, not performance or behavioral issues.
I always felt bad for the guys with 15 – 18 years of service that got RIF'd. talk about sucking.
Amen Paul! Military pay will seem like a king's ransom compared to trying to make it in the civilian world, especially for the lower-ranking troops with little to no education beyond a high school diploma. When you're working a cash register or flipping burgers for minimum wage (or maybe slightly more if you're lucky) with no heath benefits (or ones so expensive they drain a huge chunk of your already tiny paycheck), no housing allowance, no annual raise….military pay will look pretty sweet. I know….I've been there, done that. When the drawdown came, I thought I'd get a $30/hr job with one of the airlines (I was in avionics) with no problem. I was happy to leave the military and its "crappy" pay behind. Boy, was I wrong! The airlines were laying people off at the time too, so I had to take a job working retail for just slightly over minimum wage (and I only got that because my boss was retired military). It took me working retail for almost 10 years before I started making even close to what I had made in the military.
Adrienne you got that right, just because CNN or ACAP say a job pays $50,000 a year does not mean you will get $50,000 a year doing that job. ACAP is a great resource but it is a little misleading. The unemployment rate is much higher for veterans then civilians and all this talk from the president about veteran’s jobs is just smoke and mirrors. Many businesses will hire veterans but at the lowest wage possible it’s all based on the experience in “that” position not the military experience. Likewise, unlike in the military, you have to pay for your benefits if you get any benefits at all, in a civilian job your medical will cost you around $300 a month, Dental around $100, Vision $60. In the end you benefits will take a third of your pay.
Plus they don't always tell you all of the additional school and/or licensing you'll need to get those $50k jobs. My airline "dream job" still required Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) and FCC licensing which involves additional schooling and tests. Sure I could've used my G.I. Bill for it, but I still needed a job to earn money just to live on. Being military does not guarantee a good job upon seperation…in fact, in these economic times, it doesn't guarantee a job at all.
It wasn't brutal it was numbing. I remember them going through Friday afternoon, military, you're getting a new assignment, civilian, CBPO will work with you, contractor, this is your last day.
And Now A Small Fisherman becomes A Trophy Fish.
The other day, I ordered a pizza for dinner. The guy on the phone was like "Are you military? We give a discount" I continued to tell him no, that my husband is in the military and I declined it. He kept pushing it on me like a used car salesman. *shrug* There are some decent wives out there. By the way, my husband was not partaking in our pizza eating activity (base wide exercise). There are other ways to save money. If times are hard, a military discount is not going to save you from debt- but a job will.
I have no shame using the military discounts. I do not demand them — but I ask if they are there when i remember and I show my ID (with pride!) when I know a store has them. Like I said in my comment below, we BOTH volunteered to serve in a way .. he by putting his life on the line, me by being willing to raise a family solo by saying "farewell" when he deploys while knowing that he may not ever return. If a business wants to thank him for his service by giving his spouse a discount on pizza (because at least part of what we spend is what he has earned for his service) then even if he is not eating I'm going to say yes.
You didn't write the government a blank check for you life… YOU AREN"T SERVING… quit stealing the glory of men and women who do serve. The days of a woman being MS COL so and so are over.. you want the glory get the uniform on yourself. YOU ARE NOT SERVING!
Wow! A business fully understands the financial consequences of offering a discount of any kind. I’ve never felt entitled to a military discount, but as a veteran myself and now just a spouse, if they offer a discount to military families I’m going to take it. If they say I must be active duty to receive the discount they aren’t going to lose my business over it and I’m not going to storm out just because they won’t give it to me. I’m not stealing anyones glory. Just because I no longer wear the uniform does not mean that businesses will stop showing appreciation to military families and I will happily oblige and accept their appreciation.
JIm,
In defense of my spouse, and military spouses everywhere: She has given any any hope of a long-term, meaningful career besides homemaker & mother (which also applies to men), plus what Amy said about deployments and kids. Believe me, my family puts up with enough crap from my being in the military that if a business is willing to offer them a discount on a pizza, they should take it. Stealing glory… what are you talking about? I didn't realize a pizza qualified as "glory" nowadays.
Brian, I'm sorry that your spouse gave up any hope of a meaningful career. I served the country for 21 years and my military HUSBAND (who also happened to be a paraplegic due to an accident shortly after we married) managed to go to school and graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Molecular Biology and Biochemistry WITH HONORS. At the same time, while I was on active duty, I managed to graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Communications AND a Master of Arts in Journalism and Public Relations, also with honors. We both went on to have MEANINGFUL careers, including his career in the sciences for the last six years that I was serving in the military.
See, it can be done. All you have to do is WANT it badly enough to sacrifice SOMETHING. It might be money, it might be time, it might be not having a mini-van-load full of screaming kids until you are financially READY to do so.
No, pizza doesn't qualify as "glory," but the admiration, respect, and appreciation for serving in the military belongs to the service members, not to their spouses, parents, children, etc. If you want to be recognized for greatness, then ask to be recognized for the great things YOU did, not those of your family member.
The raging child hating self important feminist shows her true colors. I seriously hope you never had children.
Why is she now a raging child hating self important feminist? Because she mentioned that it may be wiser to wait to have children until you're financially ready? I'm all for people having children at any age they want to, but I do see the benefits of waiting until you're more stable in your careers. It allows you to offer your kids a better quality of life and education. What's wrong with that?
those of you that are not military members or spouses have no idea and should not comment. what if we had no military? you would all cry and plead for help, so back off! and u damn right we deserve it for what we sacrifice for u idiots to be able to wake up and speak english and live free u should rub our feet!
See? The feeling of entitlement extends far beyond military families. What makes someone who doesn't serve an idiot? Perhaps someone would give anything to serve but can't because of their lot in life to be born with a genetic defect that is an automatic disqualifier.
Words like "we sacrifice for you idiots" are what makes some people in the general public have the obscene opinion that putting together care packages for troops is a ridiculous notion (Google the Suffolk Law School professor who recently said this).
Despite being a military spouse and lumped into the category of those allowed to comment per your rules, I hate feet and even if I were not affiliated with the military in any way shape or form, I would rather you do your own pedicure and foot rub.
As a military member and a spouse (and thereby having been given your oh-so-gracious permission to comment), I'm just curious as to what sacrifices we need to make for you to be able to wake up and type English.
It is an ALL volunteer military. There are sacrifices that are made but for you to assume that you have given America the right speak English. I believe that is a little far fetched. I retired last year after 23 years of service. My husband retired the year before after 23 years of service. I am both a veteran and a spouse of a veteran. You really need to get off of your high horse and pay more respect to this great country of ours.
FYI, this is clearly a Troll.
we'd save a ton of money. ever think how much avgas was burned by SAC in the 50s??
Wow James! Let’s see, I am a disabled vet and a Military Brat so am I qualified to weigh in? Your attitude is exactly what everyone is talking about. I served, dad served, grandfather served and, in fact, we have served since the Revolution and nobody owes me anything. I served without thought of recompense beyond what I was contractually due. Even today when someone thanks me for my service I am humbled. When vets act as you do it is an embarrassment to the rest of us. Nobody owes you anything and with your attitude you will not even get respect.
James, your commit is what the problem is and its shows that you have the entitlement mentality. Its all “give me, give me give me” like a 10 year old girl. Many people joined the military before you, ask for very little and got just about nothing in return for their service but a paycheck and a hand shake. (James please note I am a Army veteran with 25 years of active service 1980 to 2005)
What about
•Selfless service (NCO creed)
•Ask not whet your county can do for you, but what you can do for your country (JFK).
•Service for GOD and Country
….im a servicemen, this is just embarrasing. we shouldn't hold ourselfs on a pedistool, we joined because we had no other option. not being able to get a job, or not making enough money. or needing money for college……….Don't make it sound like you volunteered single handedly to have a bullet put in your back. cuz not 1 of us did. this was a last resort for most of us.
you need to keep your military bearing, and the
morals deemed necissary by the united states.
As former USN active duty and a current spouse, I would like to say that comments like the one you just made are the reason the military family as a whole is looked at as entitlement seeking trash. Service members who cannot take the time to speak or write properly, show a lack of respect for themselves and others and spouses who let their children run around in dirty diapers while they gossip all day about each other and how the military has wronged them. When I got out of the Navy in 1996, I didn't understand how blessed I was. Now that I am older, wiser and I have remarried and my husband is serving, I thank God everyday for the second chance to serve this country. I will serve beside my husband with pride, integrity and respect. I appreciate the amazing benefits and enjoy the discounts we sometimes receive. The $50 something gift card Sears gave to us this year is $50 we didn't have and $50 a generous person did not have to give. James, I would appreciate it if you learned to respect yourself and our country so that those of us who ARE military and/or spouses do not have to be embarrassed by your ignorance and feeling of entitlement. I would imagine the author of the article has read your response and thought "case in point" as you have proven his theory. Maybe you, James, should humble yourself and rub the feet of the taxpayers who pay your salary so you can keep your job.
There are so many issues being brought up. LOL I do think there are military spouses who feel entitled. But is the military responding to needs and it's gone overboard like the military is wont to do? Is it a reflection of the entitlement in our society? I think it's some of both.
I know I don't want the thanks or respect that my husband deserves , but I do know my 17 years as an army wife is much different than the lives of my civilian friends.
Paul, you need to stop clouding this debate with your facts and common sense..
Don’t you know us wives are sexually deprived for YOUR freedom and as spouses we clearly deserve a free meal at Applebee’s on Veterans Day?
I do wish that people would stop thanking spouses for their service.. Servicing a service member does not equate service to this country..
OSMW – Your last sentence is ridiculous. While you can credibly argue that milspouses don't "serve" their country, I'm pretty sure most married couples would agree that marriage should not be reduced to "servicing" someone else. There's a lot more to marriage than sex. Sex is the easy part.
Boy did this conversation get lost on you, Army Wife.. We're not talking about most married couples. We're talking about spoiled, self-serving, entitled, overly-sensitive military wives.
I take it you've never seen these T-shirts/bumper stickers/coffee cups/thongs? They wouldn't sell them if military wives didn't actually BUY them and actually believe this sewage: http://shop.cafepress.com/sexually-deprived-for-y…
Just because it's "ridiculous" doesn't mean it's not true. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go put on my new bumper sticker that says "My other ride is a US Marine"
Now THAT is funny.
My pet peeve is the 'freedom isn't free' bit you hear all the time now. You never heard that 30 years ago. Then again we knew the Bill of Rights was passed by Congress and not DoD back then.
Now being a military spouse and Army veteran is very conflicting, because I do get a little jealous when someone stops my husband and thanks him for his service. I'm like "hey, I'm not just the little stay at home mom over here. I served too!" I also know both sides of the argument, and I get pissed off when I'm in a conversation like this and someone says "Well you wouldn't know any better since you're just a military spouse". Umm..No. I wish people would stop just assuming that all military spouses have no experience with the other side.
Wow where to start. I am a vet (Navy 92-96) and the wife of 17yrs to a sailor. So that being said I can tell you that the "military life" is WAYYYYYY better now than it was when I came in, got married in the early to mid 90's. With pay raises, and organizations that give assistance to military, better dissemination of information through the Internet. I shudder when I hear some of the newer wives griping about how "horrible" they have it. We chose this life. No one "owes" us anything. I do believe this has a deeper root in the "entitlement" generation though. Its not exclusive to mil spouses.
Ah, very good point you make! I think this entitlement mentality is just the latest and greatest generation of spoiled teenagers growing into adults. Those teenagers who for the later part of their lives have had everything handed to them graciously by their parents (bills paid, cars bought, insurance paid, here’s a cellphone!) now they’ve found themselves a spouse in the military who can provide! But once they get that new shiny dependent ID in their greedy little fingers, that gives them the ammunition they need to stomp into Applebee’s on Veterans Day and demand a free steak dinner because “I SERVE TOO!” (yes, my FRG leader and the FRG secretary did that)
Kids today..
great answer osmw
Andi has raised some very good points. Let me add my two cents:
1. The entitlement among servicemembers and spouses (often times, i'm afraid, mostly among spouses) can be traced back to a larger entitlement culture, just like one commenter said above. We just given ourselves even greater leeway to feel this way based on how we've been taught to act. Doesn't make it right. … but it does explain some things. We think it's OK to think the world owes us something, and we take advantage of it.
2. My husband serves — not me. That being said, when someone finds out that my husband is in the military and thanks ME for MY service (they always say "thank your husband for his service — and thank you for yours as well") I know that they are not thanking me for putting my life on the line… they are thanking me for daily supporting in the most tangible, important ways the one who does. Our leaders time and again point out how much family support matters to the health (emotional and otherwise) of servicemembers. I appreciate the respect of a civilian who is acknowledging that being a military spouse is a hard job. Yes, I volunteered for it (just like my husband volunteered to serve!) … and I do not EXPECT respect, but I greatly appreciate it when it is there.
though one thing that really sucks, the spouse has to put their career on hold unless they're something like a teacher or a nurse that is employable anywhere with the every 2 year PCS. that has always been just rotten.
Amy . . . couldn't agree more
1. Entitlements: I've gotten the most interesting reactions from people in civilian and military world both when they find out that A: I'm a single mom who has done it on her own and has never asked ex for a dime. B: Has never gone to the gov't for help even when things have gotten tight, but I can't tell you how grateful I am for a close knit family whose advice and support has helped me during those short period of dark times dealing with ex and/or job-loss issues, and C: My boyfriend serves. I do and will appreciate the thank you's . . on his behalf. He is the one who is a necessary and needed cog in the wheel of our nation's security. My job is to support HIM and I'm grateful for those who recognize what our spouses and significant others do . . but I certainly don't expect to be patted on the back . . I'd rather he was thanked. ;-)
YES!!!! I appreciate the support as well. It is such a difficult life to be a spouse back at home when a military husband leaves. My husband always thanks me and tells me how much I make his job possible. That's all I need.
I do not respect anything additional from anyone because of my service.If it is offered, I say Thank You for the kindness. To demand anything from anyone because of my service I would find very distastefull. I did not serve for 33 years and four wars for a 10% discount from anyone. I learned along time ago that I was expected to wait in lines, and wait my turn. BTW, if I ever saw someone pulling BS like this, i would call them down. Actually, I am sometimes embarresed by this. I think most of us, both AC and retired just want to get on with our lives. Same thing goes when someone says, "Thank You for your service." I say "You are welcome, but you don't have to thank me for the privledge of serving with the best friends that I have ever known." And I usually add, "Please just say a prayer for the wounded and KIA."
You stand one day in the shoes of one of the military soldiers and then complain!!! The military doesn't give these soldiers and families anything, they earn it. Each and everyday that you sleep and wake to a new day these people are keeping you safe in your home. Go to another country and see how welcome and if there arms are opening. I think every high school student should do six weeks in ROTC under any branch of the service so, your children would know and understand what freedom is all about. You have to wear the uniform and stand by your man or woman to understand the military so, until you try it don't judge!!!! USMC Semper Fi……
Couldn’t have said it better @joyce. Don’t judge what u don’t know. Semper fi
Honestly, I don't think it's a problem JUST within the military community, although that certainly exists. There are thousands – even millions – of people all over this country who feel entitled to have certain things. They feel like just because they want something, they should be able to have it…whether they have earned it or not. It's a societal problem, not just a community problem. I would have thought that would change with the economical problems of late, but clearly it's just gotten worse. I don't know how people came to the idea that they "deserve" things just because they're available. Oh wait…
Great post. Military people make twice more than civilians, yet we whine for more and more.
What? Maybe if you are a General, retire, and end up working as a greeter at Walmart (nothing wrong than that btw). I served 5 years active duty and presently still serve in the Army Reserves (as a SSG). I get paid way more as a civilian. Don't know what stuff you are on, because I have a couple of friends who may be interested.
I'm a military member, not a spouse, but I think it's fair to say spouses "serve," too. We couldn't do what we do as effectively without them taking care of the homefront.
And I think it's a good thing that the country is offering its support in many ways, discounts among them.
But discounts should not be an expectation — if we want to see the pendulum swing in the other direction from supporting military families, continue that extortion mentality.
And as far as the low pay…c'mon. Once you factor in BAH (and its tax-free status) and the fact that military members pay nothing for health care, how can anyone actually complain about the compensation? Are you going to get rich in the military? No. But you're going to do reasonably similar to (or better than) your civilian equivalents (in terms of education, work experience, etc.)
In some respects I agree with you. In others I don't. When we were stationed overseas, I very much felt that I was serving with him. I was practically being forced (although not literally because I was not under any type of enlistement) to live overseas if I wanted to keep my family together. Also, in Korea at least, there are tons of MANDATORY exercises the spouses have to be a part of. I was also very involved with our unit and volunteered a lot, SO in a sense, I could say that I felt that I served right along side him. But there are military members that live stateside, off post, who never do anything with the military except have a spouse that happens to work on post everday. So it's definitely not equal.
I am ashamed to admit that there was a time when I would grumble about not getting discounts at times. I can even remember making a couple of comments under my breath. I hadn't thought the issue through at that point.
That said, I do think sometimes we sound as though we feel as though we are entitled and I don't like the impression that leaves on people.
At the same time, I don't think it's wrong for us to ask if places offer a discount. I'm not going to be angry at someone if they don't, but it doesn't hurt to ask and as long as you are polite about it, I don't think it screams entitlement any more than someone asking for a Triple A discount or pulling out their AARP card.
Some people mentioned MyCAA. My issue with that was that it was a program that was started and offered and that received a tremendous amount of positive feedback. This lifestyle DOES have repercussions on a spouse's career–that point has been made HERE more than once. It was nice to feel understood in that predicament. Halfway through, without warning it was ripped away and the communication was botched. Was anyone entitled to that in the first place? No. Did it send a terrible message to spouse's when it was revoked? Absolutely.
As spouses we DO sacrifice. We don't promise to spill our own blood, but promising to stand by while your husband comes and goes, when he DOES spill his blood, when he comes back changed, when we have to solo parent, those are all sacrifices we make for our country. And they are sacrifices I am PROUD to make, but I don't feel like I should shrug off a heartfelt 'thank you' so as not to look as though I feel entitled. It's nice to know that someone is empathetic enough to realize this life is difficult.
The thing that upsets me about comments like this is how everyone jumps on a bandwagon. Immediately, people are pointing fingers at those 'awful entitled people who would dare ask for a discount.' Then you get the comments about spouses and how we ruin service members lives and careers by our terrible attitudes. We all start painting with a broad brush. I'm glad that this subject has been talked about and aired. I just wish we could all breathe and realize that there are times when we ALL need to re-evaluate our attitudes about things. It took me a while, and it took a few people non-confrontationally reminding me that these 'perks' are freely given, but I eventually did.
The difference between getting a discount for AAA or AARP is that people actually PAY these organizations for their services and the organizations, in turn, negotiate discounts for the customers. The military is not a "for profit" organization, nor is it a lobbying group. The discounts given by individual companies is out of their corporate generosity and appreciation. I don't think that anyone should feel entitled to anyone's generosity. That's why it's called GENEROSITY.
Don't get me wrong, my husband (military spouse) and I (active duty retiree) take advantage of the discounts offered at Lowe's and Home Depot, but we don't EXPECT them. In fact, we were denied a discount on a major appliance at one Home Depot when we had received it on another appliance at a different Home Depot. It was interesting that different branches actually have different policies. (We are in the DC area and there are many military members here.)
So, when you are "denied" a military discount, don't automatically assume it's "company policy," because it seems that individual store managers apply the policy using their own interpretation.
I think the entitlement comes from EVERYWHERE not just the military spouse's…NO one is looking out for their neighbor..it's all about me and what are you doing for me..not what are you doing for our community, not what are you putting INTO your community…if you want change it starts with YOU..did we forget that?? Look at the Occupy movement…what are you doing for THEM? I see all across the board…which is sad…our country as a whole has moved from US to ME :(
I was thinking much the same thing. I don't know if it's so much a "military family" thing as it may simply be the culture of entitlement that is pervasive in the United States and in which some individuals rally together as military families. As a man in his 20s, I can say that there is/was a sense of entitlement among my generation. At times, it seemed like we were taught that we were special just because we existed. Tolerance for a wide variety mutated into giving everyone a blue ribbon for being first place in a one-person competition. So now that some "entitled" individuals find themselves able to band together under the banner of "miitary families", it's seen coming out from a more defined and publically visible group rather than just scattered individuals.
But I don't think it's a majority in either side. I think what we're seeing is really the loud, obnoxious minority that's causing the hurt feelings.
I see quite a bit of mixing things up here. i don't think the author or anyone here is sugesting you are acting like you are entitled if you ASK if a store has a military discount. As pointed out by others that's no different than asking if they hgave a discount for AAA or seniors. That isn't the problem.
The problem becomes when people complain that a store doesn't offer a military discount or whines and complains if that discount goes away. THAT is acting like you are entitled.
This is nothing new, or worse, and the letter to the editor was off the mark… probably due to witnessing a couple individuals in a town with thousands of military personnel. This sort of attitude toward "military entitlement" has always existed in places with active duty stations, the townies hate them, yet love to take their money. I remember in the late '90's the huge concern over the "epidemic" of drunk airman in town where I was at; it was 3 people. Officers wives have felt entitled for as long as I can remember, on base and off, believing their husband's rank was their own. The letter to the editor was little more than an axe to grind with little supporting evidence to back it up to say this is a new and aggressive problem. While I make it a point to not where my uniform off base I do enjoy the simple "thank you" at the gas station as opposed to the screamed "baby killer" my father experienced in the 70's. If that makes me entitled so be it.
I am a military spouse and former enlisted, and then commissioned, military member. I am the daughter, grand-daughter, and great-grand-daughter of career military members. I.E., I'm speaking from a lifetime of experience when I offer the following:
Here's a recent conversation I had, at a military hospital with a civilian contractor physician: Her: "You know, you wouldn't be able to get this procedure at a civilian hospital because it wouldn't be authorized. You're lucky." Me: "Lucky? If my husband worked at CVS nobody would have tried to kill him last year (my husband was in an IED strike while serving in Iraq) and we would have spend 15 of the last 15 years in the same home instead of 9 out of 15. I am not "lucky" that you'll take a mole off my cheek lady. My husband and I have earned the benefits provided because you know what? This is not a cake-walk lifestyle. You want people to be in the military, benefits are a smart thing. And wash your hands."
I appreciate businesses that provide military discounts. Home Depot gets my business because they do. I think Home Depot likes getting 90% of my money instead of none of it. I daily interact with senior officers and their families and junior enlisted members and their families. Let me say for a certainty that the "whining princesses" are in a tiny minority. The tough men and women helping each other out, forging bonds that last a lifetime, and strengthening our nation as a whole are the overwhelming majority.
When my father returned from Viet Nam I watched as a woman spit on him – literally spit on him – in the airport. My father served 35 years in the Army, has a bronze star for valor and was spit on by another American. Should we go back to those days? Do we need to denigrate military members and their spouses so that it's easier to take away their "entitlements" when it's time for budget cuts? Don't fall for it folks. It's a cheap shot way to make budget cuts to military benefits easier. Do military spouses whine? Yep. I do. Do civilian spouses whine. Yep. Heard a woman have a screaming wall-eyed fit at Walmart because her coupon was expired and they wouldn't honor it. This is not a "military" problem.
thanks for saying what i tried to, but soooo much better :) i should have stopped instead of trying to get ahead!
i….love….you! lol. you explained it so well for the UNEDUCATED.
Extremely great and valid points! You said what I have been hoping and praying, that the "whining princesses" are in the minority. Unfortunately, at our base, they make a GREAT amount of noise for being a tiny minority and it causes the rest of us nothing but headache and heartache. On a base of thousands, a hundred or so have thrown a serious cog in the machine and we all suffer for it.
Like you, I can trace family lineage in military back several generations, at least to WWI. My husband is the 4th in direct generational line to serve. I tease by saying I served the military best by marrying him, instead of enlisting. Anyway, we both have great love of military history and pageantry and it makes me sick to see how some of these "young" people (I'm 36) behave, I can half understand it from the spouses who never saw anything military except on TV, but from actual active duty? That I don't understand. But I really liked your post.
Wow! I stopped reading these posts. They were ridiculous and embarrassing. The article made me think and wonder if I behaved in a way that would make me appear to have a feeling of "entitlement". It was good because it was thought provoking and caused some self-searching. Thank you for the actual article! Reading the posts, I was disgusted by the arguments between everyone, spouses and military personnel. I thought we were family. I guess we are because we certainly argue and get petty like family can. Have a great day everyone!
I agree completely with the article. I am a mil spouse but my husband and I were married with a family before he joined. We have lived the civilian life and have seen life without any "hand holding" so when something good comes our way (a discount at a store or Sears Heroes at Home) then it humbles us that the allowance is made for us due to my husband's active duty status. Frankly, the way some military spouses acted of the Sears Heroes at Home program appalled me and several other military wives. I do believe, as someone else said, that the newer military spouses are those who married straight after accepting their high school diploma and went from Mom and Dad's house to military housing. They do not have an opportunity to grow up and their behavior reflects that. Either way, the entitlement attitude is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to military wives issues. It's a darn shame really.
That explanation might work, except that I got married to my high school sweetheart who had already enlisted, when I was 17, within a couple months of graduating high school, and I never once would have thought of acting like some of these girls have. Even how some of the women in their twenties have. For one, my great-grandmother would have taken a switch to me, two, my husband would have lectured me on being a discredit to his career and he would have been right and three I would have been mortified by my own behavior. I don't think (to borrow from another post) today's whiny princesses have any of those three to worry about, let alone all three. My husband and I have been married 18 years and he has been military 19 years. I am one of the wives who was completely disgusted by the comments and actions of military spouses over the Sears Heroes at Home program, both during the sign ups and yesterday when the amount was announced for the cards. That bad behavior can't be allowed to be blamed on getting married young.
I have also seen from my experience that it is my family who drives me nuts with this. When my husband and I came back to the US for a visit (we are overseas right now), every place we went, my family was demanding military discounts. I would back away with my face red and put my products back on the shelves and leave out of embarrassment for their behavior, but they would pitch a fit if a store didn't have a discount. I have learned not to shop with my family.. o.O
I have been a military spouse for almost 20 years, and while I don't "deserve" a discount, and don't "deserve" a thank you, and I don't technically serve, my husband has been absent from our family, being shot at (not behind the wire) for almost four full years since 9/11 alone. Not to even count the times before that. And not counting the five years I lived overseas on Uncle Sam's request with three kids…very expensive to come home. I'm not asking for a darn thing, but my life is WAY different than my civilian sisters, and they all say "I don't know how you do it" with 12 moves in 20 years, another coming up. I don't "deserve" anything, but I sure do appreciate it when someone notices that my children and I put up with a whole lot to keep the military running – and we'll keep doing it, regardless of any discount.
Seeing all these comments makes me extremely grateful and proud to have an amazing spouse who works hard and takes care of the family when I am away, keeping our heads above the water without complaining about not getting 10 percent off. Look around you everyone needs 10 percent off these days!
@Jessica – I find your comments utterly incredulous. One couldn't find a better poster child for the issue being lamented "Do military families feel entitled?" You obviously lack much perspective of current economic affairs, history or perhaps even just what hardship on this planet really is!! Right now as we type over 850,000 veterans of the Iraq & Afghanistan campaigns are unemployed and have been for long periods (over 1 year). Thousands of Veterans in the USA are homeless! I know, I'm a vet and have been in those situations in the past few years. Historically, our military active duty received even less in terms of pay and benefits! And just try surviving on this planet like 50% or more on less than 5 bucks a day or so! Count your Blessings, Do something meaningful and stop griping – it's gonna get worse; there's a lot more room to slide down from where your sitting right now!! YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!
I think you are being far too kind is saying that MOST don't act like this. I'd say most do. Wives think they have the hardest job in the military, access nearly any military spouse support page, FRG meeting, etc and you will find all kinds of spouses bitching and moaning about what is owed to THEM, not even the service member but the spouse. It's sickening and quite frankly pisses me off to my core. I don't expect a darn thing for someone else service to our country. Doesn't help that great programs like Joining Forces have "bought into" this mentality. I'd be thrilled if in 2012, Sears told all the ungrateful wives to pack sand for their behavior this year. If you can't afford Christmas for your kids without a $50, then prioritize a little better.
My guy is only two years into his military career and I'm still in awe of how many perks we both get because of his service. Sometimes I feel almost embarrassed to accept discounts because I'm one of those wives who has that "My husband is in the military, I'm just married to him" mentality. We were together for almost four years before he joined up and life on the civilian side would be a brutal reality check for anyone with entitlement issues. When you're a civilian there are very few safety nets. For the most part you are on your own, and no one is going to give you any of the perks that some in the military community seem to take for granted.
On my part I say a little prayer of thanks every time I go to the commissary and can afford to buy a full cart of groceries, every time I go to a doctor and don't have to pay a dime, every time I walk into our lovely house on base that is nicer than any place we have lived before, every time I take our pets to the vet on base at little cost. Seriously, people need to be grateful for what they have because there are a lot of people who would love to be in our position.
I think that part of the problem is that many of the young people who join the military come in with an entitlement complex. They have been raised to expect things and it just carries over. I am a military spouse and I am many times appalled at the behavior of other spouses. Not just with the outside community but the on post community as well. I am glad to see I am not the only one who has noticed this.
Now, I actually don't use any store military discounts, ever actually, nor do I ever expect them. Now when my husband comes home, he uses them. Point being not everyone feels entiteled. Another thing, I think have a family member absent from your family is very challenging and very different then what one would experience in a "civilian lifestyle". It presents different challenges. I dont ever expect anything actually, but do realize it sucks being just the spouse to. In fact do not think for even a second I would not rather be the one in the uniform. I would LOVE to join, but I cannot even imagine how hard it would be on my family if I and my husband where both enlisted. He is deployed right now, and I would much rather be there deployed and serving too, I would rather bust my ass and pass time there then be here, busting my ass at work and school, just to come home to an empty, lonely house every night.
I also have to say, my husband will bein 10 years after his re enlistment is up, and although it is wise for him to stay in, his decision to get out is one that I am not going to tell him no too. Why? Because I cannot have a career I would enjoy if he stayed in, and I would have to sacrifice my own career for the good of his. Thank you ladies who have done this. Each side of the family, whether the memeber in service or the spouse has a role, each with different challenges, lets be kind to eachother. But no one is entitled to a discount. I dont mean this as a disrespect, I come from a long line of military, and I would much rather be the one in the uniform, but we can't all have both spouses enlisted, my grandparents did it, she ended up getting out to take care of there kids.It is tough for both, and no one is entitled but dont act like the family does not take a involuntary stressor from it all. I truly wish I was enlisted and my husband was the one at home.
I cannot spell today. LOL. Hopefully we can all use common sense to understand what i meant to type
*I would enjoy if he stayed in, but I would have to give up a career I would enjoy and that in itself is a huge sacrifice, and frankly, it would kind of suck.
I'm glad you mentioned the Sears Heroes at Home Program and the disgusting display during sign-ups by military spouses, well, it happened again yesterday, when emails went out announcing the amount of the egiftcards was $55. Because that "wasn't enough". That very same day, a tree farm trucked in and gave away a couple of hundred free Christmas trees at our base but people were upset because they were "too small", only 4 footers. My husband, a SNCO, lit into the E-5 he heard complaining about the trees and I lit into the group of spouses I heard complaining about the Sears cards, especially since those cards were for the military member, not the spouse. Even single military members were eligible. They were upset about that too, during sign-ups. Do you know how many thank-yous were on the Heroes at Home actual Facebook page, not the Sears page, by yesterday afternoon? Two.
The answer to the question is yes. The younger military generation, both active duty and spouses (especially spouses, OMG!) act extremely entitled. I don't think it is necessarily military life that has created that perception of life for them, though. I think they came into the military life with it and it only strengthened as they realized that they could capitalize on so much free and/or discounted stuff and people would kiss their respective rear-ends. That is when they became monsters. I know as the wife of a SNCO it isn't in my husband's and my generation of military. We all still remember when being military made you scum in some people's eyes and there was no such thing as a military discount. With all of that being said, I refuse to believe that the military is doomed or that because of the cross-section I see of spoiled brats that there isn't a larger, much quieter cross-section of young, responsible, hard-working, loyal American military men and women and their spouses. Unfortunately, it is likely that the loud-mouthed entitlement whiners will bring about a dark period for those wonderful military men and women, but it will be a process of weeding out the bad ones. The entitlement "free" seekers will not stick long once all those fabulous programs are gone, then it will be the quiet, hard-working, unassuming, dedicated men and women who joined because of patriotism and loyalty and stay for the same reasons, not because of the the free bloomin' onion. Hopefully, military spouses can hold their heads high once again, then, too. Because right now, this crop makes us ALL look pretty damn bad.
That's odd because I'm looking at the Heroes at Home Facebook page right now and I see many, many thank yous for the program. Your experiences sound just awful. :( I'm so glad that you gave the people that you encountered another perspective.
I think the best way to combat this is just to affirm and encourage a sense of pride in our service members and pride for what we do and to remind people that because of that pride we conduct ourselves in a way worthy of the title that we are privileged to bear. I paid very close attention to the way that spouses who had been doing this longer than me conducted myself. If they see 'seasoned' spouses conducting themselves with grace and looking at things in a perspective other than the entitled one maybe that will help to turn the tide.
To be fair, many of the thank yous to Sears happened when people learned that they were going to get the gift card a few months back.
Quite honestly, yes, I do see many, many of the younger soldiers/families with an entitlement attitude. By younger I mean, those who have come into the military in the last 5 to 10 years. I admit when I joined the army in 1993 it wasn't for patriotic reasons, it was for an education, a job and direction. BUT, I didn't expect the army to carry me, I had to work for everything I got. Now, do I except discounts when offered, absolutely. Just like other services oriented jobs are offered. Firemen, police officers, etc also have little extras here and there offered. But, if say, Disney stopped giving a discount I wouldn't be out there griping about it. Now, mess with our healthcare, and that yes, I would fight tooth and nail.
only time i'd listen to a spouse/parent is if the warrior can't speak for themselves…
also the combat record of the speaker would be my central focus…but i prefer the humble thank you sir/mam myself..
USAAF BRAT/USAF WIFE/USAF MOM… No rank here only Miss/Mrs/Mom! Military Life is what I was born into, so it’s all I know! Military Families don’t live in a bubble either! We are a diverse and cross section of our Country, so we’re gonna get a few bad apples as with all society….let us not let them spoil the reputation of All Military Families Present and Past! Post WWII Officer housing was screenless
tarpaper covered barracks and the latrines were out back and that’s
where all us kids got bathed @1830 every nite! After Vietnam along with our we were ridiculed
Sorry touchscreens 2 Touchy! Point I was trying to make was that Military Families and their Servicemembers have put up with alot of critisim and hardships over the years especially after ‘Nam! The Military Life is “nomadic-like”! Many times I didn’t get work because I was a “Transient”!!! Military Spouses have come a long way since Martha Washington we have a long legacy to be proud of let’s not let our Pride be our Shame!
You want a medal because you volunteered to go kill people in a foreign country while our own goes down the toilet? Phuck the military. Puppets for banks and corporations. I don't support war and killing, therefore I don't support soldiers. You don't like it? Move to North Korea where all they have is military and nothing else.
I have seen a lot of mentions about the HAH program and the bad behavior with Sears. Keep in mind that Sears makes money on this program. Essentially they get other people to "donate" money that will ultimately be spent at their store. There is a reason the "donations" aren't tax deductible. So while there was definitely bad behavior, I don't see Sears discontinuing it unless it costs them money, instead of makes them money. There is genuine giving and kindness from Sears customers who overall support the program.
The average payout this year was $50 per family. Multiply that by 10,000 families. That means Sears can count on a profit of $500,000. Does anyone know exactly how many families got into the program this year? I heard it was 20,000.
I got in on the first year of HAH. I went to spend the gift card at a local Kmart. Kmart is owned by Sears. There was an item I wanted, but it was broken. I asked an associate for the same item from the top shelf. He told me I should be grateful for the broken one, since it was free. Someone is paying for it.
The program is an ingenious way to make more money for Sears.
Importing comments from our facebook page:
Marryanne – well said Mr. Perkins…well said. Not sure if it's just a military thing or a generation thing though. I for sure see it among a lot of military spouses though.
Jamie – Its a generation thing and an AMERICA thing. Our nation is full of entitled people. This article is crap and to point the finger at the less than 1% o this Nation actively serving and giving their lives everyday…is horrendus!!!!!
Rebecca – As a military spouse of 20 years I could not agree more with the article. It has come to the point if something is being offered or given away I stay clear. It is not worth the risk of being stampeded. The last event I attended was put on by a hair care company and people were shoving and pushing to get as many free things as they could shove in their bag…no reading of the product, no stopping to see if they could use it…it was just an all out give me, give me, give me. I do not find it is divided by age, rank or otherwise…there are greedy apples in every section.
Sarah -The article said it pretty well. I don't see many military members acting entitled, but some spouses/family members have made my jaw drop with their sense of entitlement and attitude.
Facebook comments cont'd:
Laura – It's sad but so true,, just read some comments from a recent Town Hall meeting and was more than dismayed.. A big majority of the comments were from spouses asking for this and that. Dont they realize that the military is downsizing? We are stretching our dollars as it is. I would rather my husband have a job/career than a brand new park when the old one still has years of good use in it.
April – I have to say yes and no in agreement to this article. I am a vet and spouse……I would like more military recognition more so throughout the country, but I've grown more to expect little help versus any help!!!! I will frequent restaurants or stores that offer military discounts such as Home Depot and IHOP. I have however met people across the globe who feel entitled, I don't think it's limited to military and/or spouses.
Stacy – I agree and disagree also. I don't necessarily see this as a military issue, but a societal and American issue. I have been around the army my whole 42 years (born, served and spouse) and have seen major changes. I don't think it's just the spouses though. The army my dad served in (60's and 70's) is much different than the current army. I've seen soldiers and spouses abuse the system. But I also know the reality that the military is not the best and brightest of our nation. I love our military (LOVE!), but they are a slice of our society, so we have it all, good and bad. And I've seen the importance of family support, but I think it's gone too far, to be honest. I love being an army wife, some days are easy peasy, but other days are hard. I guess my point is, signing on the dotted line to potentially sacrifice your life is respect-worthy, but it's doesn't make you a moral person or good person. And the military doesn't sign up moral people, it takes, usually, whomever walks into the recruiting office.
John – I've been telling people for a while now that military spouses, especially overseas, have an "entitlement culture," but I haven't had the guts to write about it, thank you. I've been going through a period where I've been avoiding my spouse communities, online and in person, because of just this type of behavior…
Melissa – Part of the problem is the Army itself. The Army, in some ways, created a sense of entitlement among it's younger spouses. How? Rewind 10 years. Service members begin deploying to both Iraq and Afghanistan. They come home, then deploy again. For some soldiers, when they were told, "It's time to deploy for the third time," some wives put their foots down (despite the fact that a soldier's job is to deploy and fight and he/she knows that when he/she signs up) and said, "No way, I'm not doing this anymore … It's either me or the Army". So the Army began to "bleed", specifically, the Army began to bleed Captains. So the powers-that-be asked the captains, "What can we do to keep you in the Army … we need you" and the captains replied, "My spouse needs help getting/finishing her degree, help finding a job and childcare". So that Army responded and gave us all this … and more. There is a generation of spouses who have come into the Army with the understanding that the Army will help them pay for school, the Army will help them find a job and the Army will babysit their kids for free. Now that sense of entitlement has become embedded among a generation of spouses. 20 years ago, when I first became a spouse, the Army never told me they'd pay for college, find me a job and babysit my kids, and because of that, I did all that (and more) on my own, using resources like trading babysitting services with other wives and finding my own jobs. But now, younger wives are expecting far more from the Army than I ever did. Make no mistake, all of these things (and more) are going away. MyCAA will become a thing of the past. So will free child care, employment assistance and perhaps even G.I. Bill transferability. We are in an economic recession, the Army is drawing down, and John Q. Taxpayer isn't going to pay for these perks for us anymore, whether our husbands served and projected their freedom, or not. BUT I promise you, it's not just young Army spouses that have a sense of entitlement. It's young America in general. But what I know about Young America is what I see in young Army spouses, because that's the culture I've spent the last 20 years of my life living. My friends (outside the Army) assure me that this attitude is everyone among this particular generation. Here's a great book that helps explain why: http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Americans-Confid…
Stacy -Thank you Melissa! Very well said!!
Traci – I agree it's a part of America now and that is sad. Many people even in my own family think they are entitled to all kinds of amenities without ever lifting a finger. At least military personnel are giving up something.
Entitled? Hahaha… Let me tell you how little entitled I feel…My husband (veteran of the last two conflicts) and I are waiting for immigration papers for more than NINE months (despite a "non issue" file)! For NINE MONTHS (and still counting) only one of us has been able to work! Who, with a professional degree, wants to be forced into unemployment by administration, and this, for Nine months to see how "entitled" it feels? With a son in college, bills are piling up and remind me every day how little our administration cares for what the country is calling "our heroes"… So: feeling entitled…. Huh I am nowhere near to feel entitled!
I agree and disagree I don't think anyone is entitled to anything. But at the same time I think we have the choice and option to pick and choose where we would like to give our business to. Our military families barely make enough and sometimes the discounts come in handy. Our society is money hungry, people are money hungry, this world is become runned by businesses and all I'm saying is that we have to stretch our buck but at the same time you can't demand anything. I'm grateful for the companies that do off military discounts. But I don't feel entitled to it, but I do stand on stretching our dollar to the best of my ability. It's not just military that have this so called entitlement issue but it's our police force, firefighters, people in higher ranking positions, our elderly. It's not really entitlement but it's not wanting to be taken advantage of. I've worked for companies that wanted to jiff the Seniors of their senior discounts because they didnt ask for it, or they asked to late. Why should we be a society that is so stuck on self and moving up off of someone's elses loss than be respectable and honor company policy.
Thinking of my own experiences and projecting… when Lowes/Home Depot offers its discount I am appreciative, but I also know that I am tired, tired of trying to find solutions to war-caused problems, tired of flying solo, tired of putting my professional career on hold or in 2nd place and all sorts of other tirednesses associated with being in the service. The first thing you learn about PTSD is that "they" take it out on the ones they love (what a privilege!). So, where do we take it out?… probably on those we encounter "in the world" who slight us by taking away something that has given us comfort and an ounce of elevation above the problems…. just saying…maybe not rational.
I am a military spouse,my husband has been on two deployments to Iraq. I don't feel that I'm entitled to special treatment just because my husband is in the Army. As for discounts there is nothing wrong with asking for discounts whether it be a military discount,new customer discount,senoir discount etc., I'm just trying to save a few bucks here and there. I'm not going to throw a temper tantrum because they tell me no.
I read a lot of comments concerning do Military Military Families Feel Entitled, and I both agree and disagree with some of them. But I can absolutely appreciate and understand everyones viewpoints and comments. I am currently on active duty military, but at one point in my life I extited the military not once, but twice, and went back to the civilian sector to work, just because I felt that I would be better off. Needless to say, the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
Sure I made great money as a civilian, but when I factored in that I had to pay over $800.00 a month for family medical care, $102.00 a month for family dental care, and then throw our $1016.76 mortgage payment, automobile payments and etc., it was easy to see that I was better off in the military. In the military you get plenty of tangible benefits for free outside of your base pay, such as medical care, dental care, BAH, BAS, and TA. Sure you may pay a small percentage for family dental care, but it is pale in comparison to what you pay as a civilian.
I am not going to say that the military is great by any means, but in the words of JFK, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country, these are words that I live by today. The military is not a career, or job, it is a lifestyle, and a lifestyle that may not for every family. My wife and I aren't entitled to anything other than what I was promised in my contract, any thing else that we may get is a perk that is nice to have.
We can get online and we can argue back and forth about a mulititude of things, but for those of us that are current military members, former military members, retired military members, or seasoned military spouses, we need to be mentoring the younger Soldiers and there spouses and guiding them in the right direction. Give them tools to use such as: mypay.dfas.mil, http://www.saveandinvest.org, and http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/bah.cfm, and etc. These are websites where they can actually look up entitlements, and on the save and invest website, it gives them tools on how to save and invest based on what they make, as well as a wealth of other tools.
Hello
There is a bigger picture than military spousal entitlement going on right now and it's crucial to think about & do something about.
Beyond military spousal entitlement are the US military leader's false belief that they are entitlement to our US government money. US military leaders are (I'd sincerely like to meet one that isn't) justifying using OUR precious tax money on trumped up charges of false threats to our US nation.
There is definitely a struggle going on between the creatives & non creatives or civilians and the US military & it's affliates. Does anybody else here see this? For instance, our government money SHOULD be used to create solar energy & wind energy but right now it's hijacked by the US military to maintain a hold on Middle East oil. And oil pollutes our planet!
Thank you for reading the above words.
Think about this comment, and kindly reply with helpful solutions to a balanced & healthier U.S.
I have a few things to say about this. I am someone who has seen both sides. I am both an Army veteran and a military spouse to an AD Army service member. I am also currently working as a photographer in a military town. I am barely able to make any money, because everyone around here wants everything for NOTHING. I'm constantly being asked where their military discounts are "Will you give me a free session because my husbands in the military" umm…no! Everybody around here is military. I'm trying to create a business for myself here!
As far as some of the comments that spouses don't serve..that's hogwash. I know I didn't do nearly as much as when I was a soldier as I do now, but believe it or not, I still do a lot. When we were stationed in Korea, spouses were required to attend many mandatory exercises. There are many spouses, myself included, who are very involved in our husbands units, who work countless volunteer hours for the military for NO pay. So to sit back and say that none of us serve our country…is offensive!
Thank God for this forum. I have been wondering if some felt the same way I do. I get sooooo tired of military wives being glorified as heroes that make such a huge sacrifice. First of all , you (those military wives that whine, complain, and have a sense of entitlement) are no different from civilian wives. There are women out here that are married to civilian men, in different industries, and these women still work full-time jobs, go to school and, take care of their families…not to mention those single parents that are single parents for whatever reason, and are holding t down and doing it by themselves for years on end and get no recognition. Yes, I do understand that your spouses are making a sacrifice, but…remember, there is NO DRAFT, and there has not been for a long time. They (your spouses) signed up for it, and get a paycheck, and all the benefits that come along with it, ie… stipends for being married, having children, housing, GI Bill, etc… They did not sign up for volunteer work…period!!!!! I have lived in ma couple of military towns with lots of military wives around me, most of which worked, and made the best of their situations. Some may not have had the highest paying jobs, but they do make monetary contributions to their households. When people go on and on about the sacrifices that military wives make it just disgusts me to no end. They applied for a job, and they get pay and benefits just like everyone else. You knew what you were getting into when you married them.