The world is full of people who do stupid things in front cameras. Some of those people are servicemembers. And some of those films go viral.
The latest example of servicemember-led foolishness is all over the internet as well as various news channels (such as CNN) today. A video posted on YouTube and several other sites shows what appears to be a group of Marines urinating on the bodies of what appears to be dead Afghans.
The first reaction I hear from others when stuff like this happens is: “why are [insert service -- Marines, Soldiers or otherwise] so stupid [or evil, or out of control, etc.]?”
I typically respond: “The world is full of stupid people. Some of them are _____ [insert service person -- in this case “Marines”].
But it does seem like the most heinous, well publicized (or, perhaps, over publicized) acts of stupidity are conducted by people in uniform. And that puts other well behaved servicemembers and their loved ones in a tight spot. We now get to answer for their actions.
Because of these headline grabbing antics, the public is blocked from hearing about the things that make me feel proud for being married to a servicemember. Now, when I tell a civilian that I’m a MilSpouse, instead of getting an immediate platform to brag on my servicemember and the selfless things our troops do everyday, I have to spend time answering for someone else’s ill advised actions.
The obvious response to something like a video of Marines urinating on a deceased enemy is shock and horror. But in the little time we get to share our world with civilians, aren’t there more important things to talk about?
Do you ever get asked about the dumb things other servicemembers do? What do you say?
About Amy Bushatz
Comments
I think your standard reply is the right (and only) one we can give with the addition : The world is full of stupid people. Some of them just happen to be Military. There will always be a small fraction of any group who behaves badly, the military is no different.
(sort of makes me think this must be what it feels like to be a Muslim in the US right now….)
YOU DONT LIKE IT, MOVE TO THE MIDDLE EAST CAUSE PTSD WILL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME
Have you been in battle? What would you do if someone was trying to kill you? Reverently bury the body? Unlikely. Shame on you for sharing this article. You should have more respect for these men and women that risk their lives. You want them to be able to defend you but then get upset when their behavior isn't acceptable to you? Until you have been in their shoes you have NO right to judge them. Shame on you.
ProudWife, have you been in battle? Serving in a war zone is no excuse for committing a crime, and what's depicted on this video is a crime. I'm a Marine and I'm ashamed. The actions of these knuckleheads puts Americans at greater risk and hinders our efforts in Afghanistan. We're better than this.
ProudWife, I am a retired soldier, as well as an Army spouse over 20 years. I can tell you that there is NOTHING that justifies the horrible and unethical actions of a few, and that yes, the story or matter should be brought to the table for us. Shame on you, for defending such ugliness and hatred. Combat doesn't justify these behaviors. There are also service members who torment and torture and blow up, yes, blow up, innocent animals in the name of comedy or power or whatever, and these videos too have gone viral. After being stationed over seas and seeing for myself how horrible Americans can act, it is our responsibility to confront those issues. Shame on you for denying these behaviors and turning a blind eye.
"What would you do if someone was trying to kill you? Reverently bury the body?" … yeah, probably not. But I definitely wouldn't pee on it. I fail to see how, under any circumstance at all, urinating on the bodies of the enemy is acceptable or necessary. Call me crazy.
The trouble with the "If you haven't served, so you can't say anything" is exemplified by a similar example thus stated:
"I’ll bet you’ve never personally performed open heart surgery. You haven’t? Really? In that case, I don’t want your stinkin’ opinion on how the government should best distort the health insurance markets with artificial incentives."
They're both are faulty in their reasoning and likely could be considered pro hominem fallacies.
Think people, think!
semper fi
War is hell. I might do the same thing if I was in their shoes. However, regardless of how anyone feels, there ARE rules!! You break them and you are subject to consequence. What did they think was going to happen? What happens downrange stays downrange. There is no need to record it for prosperity.
Muslim-Americans have to live with societally-accepted (and dare I say endorsed?) racism and prejudice based on their religion, culture, the way they look, and the way they talk. To draw a parallel between the Muslim-American experience and your unnecessary need to defend a non-event that a) you had nothing to do with and b) most people will forget a week from now is patently absurd.
I think you're missing my point. :) The author mentions that she has to answer for the misbehavior of the jerks who do things like this instead of mentioning all the good things that our service members do. My correlation was that it's got to be like being a Muslim in america, always having to answer for the misbehavior of a small fraction of their group. But I certainly don't consider it an non-event and I certainly am NOT defending their actions. I find them utterly deplorable, even if it will be forgotten in a week, which I hope it's not. I hope these guys are disciplined.
"Shock and horror?" Really? This is war — a war that our rightful participation in is hugely debatable. What isn't debatable is how horrible wartime is for everyone, most importantly the men and women we send to do our country's dirty work — dirty work that the majority of us happily sign up for and hope that our leaders have our best interests in mind, and that the country we serve will stand behind us. As a veteran who never served in combat but had friends who did, it is downright outrageous for folks who've never experienced it to pass judgment. I think it's rather telling that so many people "support our troops," spouses included, until they're abruptly reminded that war is war and that it's gritty and horrible and defies logic altogether. These Marines have been back and forth to that godforsaken place many times over in the past decade and have watched countless numbers of their friends be either killed or grievously injured by Taliban fighters. What kind of headspace do you think the Marines in that video were in?
I could personally care less what our men and women do overseas in order to get the job done, especially when the other side has been videotaped, many times, violently mutilating service members' dead bodies, decapitating them alive, or better yet, flying planes into buildings and killing thousands of our civilians. The only thing these Marines did wrong was videotape it. The real shock and horror lies with all the armchair experts, comfy in their homes (some of them on bases and posts from which these Marines deployed!), who are so quick to condemn.
urinating on bodies or anything else is NOT getting the job done and is not acceptable under any circumstances. Do not equate those unethical behaviors with the job. For every few services members who commit such horrible behaviors, there are THOUSANDS who manage all the stress of combat and deployments who never ever condone such behaviors. Those marines should be court-martialed and held accountable for their actions. Conduct unbecoming at the minimum.
One Retired soldier and Army Wife
Again, I fail to see how urinating on the dead enemy is acceptable under any explanation. Yes, war is dirty work … dirty work that does not require you to pee on a dead body. All Soldiers polled in this household agree.
This whole thing is embarassing. We, as Americans, are better than that and whomever is found responsible should be punished. I read the above argument that it's ok because of what has been done to our military and fellow Americans, but it still doesn't make it right. We hold ourselves to higher standards and the Marines, who represent our country, are held to even higher standards. As a Marine spouse and as an American I am deeply disgusted by this.
Mel, your comment FTW! That is my point exactly.
Okay so I see a lot of non-combat vets and spouses posting on here so let me put my two cents in. Two tours in OIF in active combat teams as a line medic and then senior line medic (US Army), I never once had the urge to pee on someone I killed. The worst thing we did was kick the body to ensure they are dead, it's immoral but it was a lot safer than getting right down with them when under fire and allows you to keep moving. These few knuckleheads are not representative of the Marine Corps and most Marines I know would have knocked their heads around. It was bad Marines with bad leadership, it exists in every large organization. Hold these individuals responsible along with their leadership and drive on.
Settle down…. I agree with your general premiss, but let cooler heads prevail. You're correct the "Doc" shouldn't be unholstered and shooting. His job is to fall behind and wait unitl he's needed. He knows this, but is either a gloryhound or mental case. Unfortunately, he still makes a valid point.
Real issue here is, how does some knucklehead think that they can record something and it wouldn't be around the world in minutes?
Ok, Doc, please allow me to attempt to make one correction to your line of thinking. There is nothing!!!! immoral about kicking a dead body of an enemy to ensure his death. If you want to question your moral standings, then question did you have a justified right to take that life in the first place. I would guest that you did because most likely they were trying to take your life, or the life of one of your fellow Marines, or Soldiers. Thank you and all our troops for what you all are doing. Let's be more critical of those taking the life of our troops. Of course you could consider the saying, "It's better to be pissed off than pissed on!
Amy, I am appalled by the way you have handled this subject matter. The words you use (i.e., foolishness, antics) do not capture the levity of the situation that is under investigation. It would be FOOLISH to run at night without reflective gear. The term ANTICS is usually reserved to describe attention-drawing actions thay are playful or funny, such as toilet papering a friend’s house. The aledged actions of these Marines are better described as heinous, vile and revolting. This is not something to take lightly. Even one of the “related” posts–Things That are Silly: “Hooyah”–emphasizes how you have mistreated this subject. I think you may want to choose your words more wisely next time…
As person who spent 10 years in the military, THIS IS WRONG. We should respect our enemy. I know that might be confusing for you that never picked up a weapon and served. In theory we are fighting for something greater than ourselves. Killing the enemy is sometimes an unfortunate thing we must do to accomplish our goals. But desecrating a dead body does not accomplish any goal other than some sick, sadistic need. Yes, some of our enemies have done it to dead US soldiers. That is not a fucking excuse. Ever.
Imagine 40 years from now – these Marines sitting at home and their grandkids. "Grandpa, what did you do during the Afghan War?" "I pissed on a bunch of dirty ragheads, boy, and I laughed."
If what is depicted in the video is true, then the small fraction of fools have discraced themselves. It does not speak of the many of Military members AND their spouses whom sacrifice every day. Those outside the military have little insight to what it is like.
They have their right to comment about those knuckleheads that did the wrong thing. there are fools in every profession.
My wife whom is not a U.S. Citizen has a better insight since she married me, How in the name of God she put up with my crazy military commitments is beyond me.
What you is wrote is true about only being a small fraction of service members that will do this type of thing, but it's still a problem.
Half this war is on the battlefield and half is public perception. This video is tainting every good soldier or Marine with negative images of the military in general . The PR machine is working hard to do what they can, but the video is on the internet. It's written in ink and will not go away anytime soon. We shouldn't lie and cover up stuff like this either. It should never happen in the first place.
I don't judge those Marines for urinating on people who minutes prior were trying to kill them, and have probably killed other American troops. I do judge them for being stupid enough to do it in front of a camera.
As a former Marine I don't condone the actions of these Marines, very unprofessional and uncalled for. Reading the comments of those outraged by this incident reminds of the same reactions to enhanced interrogation techniques and the poor logic used in opposing these measures or the actions of these Marines.
So, let me get this right…you're OK with them putting a bullet through their heads and ending their life, but not OK with urinating on them; essentially desecrating a live body versus a corpse? How about cruise missiles or remotely piloted drones that "mistakenly" kill civilians because we're comfortable with collateral damage.
YOU remember this the next time you're voting or supporting an elected official who advocates the need to send our fellow citizens to fight a war. While in some cases this action is necessary, usually as the last extreme step. It's ugly, it's vicious and it's unforgiving. What they experience, what they endure and what they do in response on our behalf is shared by us all.
As a former Marine I don't condone the actions of these Marines, very unprofessional and uncalled for.
ARE YOU FOR REAL? COME ON BROTHER IN ARMS. THATS WHY YOU ARE A FORMER MARINE CAUSE REAL MARINES ARE ALWAYS MARINES EVEN AFTER THEY DIE.
I THINK THAT IT'S A DISGRACE TO OUR MEN AND WOMEN THAT SERVE OUR COUNTRY FAITHLEY. THESE SOLDERS SHOULD BE PUNISHED TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW. THIS IS WHY WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES ARE HATED IS BECAUSE DUMB A…S LIKE THE SOLDIER ARE HAVE FAILED TO ACT IN THE MANNER THAT THE GENEVA CONVENTION COVERS THAT SHOULD HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS. AND THEIR COMMANDERS TO. THIS IS NOT THE WAY ALL OF OUR TROOPS ARE ONLY THE DUMMIES THAT BRING SHAME ON THE REST OF US.
So, our Marines decided to relieve themselves on a Taliban gravesite. So what? If you've seen the video, it looks to me like the Marines had just killed these goons that were trying their best to kill THEM. The Marines didn't burn the Taliban bodies, drag them through the streets and then tie them up by their heels to a bridge (remember that one?). They took a leak on them after a hard battle. Big Deal.
General Patton made no secret of the fact he was going to "urinate" (he used a different word) in the Rhine River once he and his men dispatched the Nazis.
Yes, it's crude but are folks really under the illusion that shooting people with machine guns is not crude and "hurtful"?
I believe a better course for the Administration would be to admonish these young warriors for their crass display but to leave it at that. This is not a "criminal act". It was a youthful indescretion and should be treated as such.
I agree with you 1000%. The comments of our own countrymen are a disgrace , it makes them seem like the enemy.
Yeah they killed 3 guys, and with this video they just created 20 more guys to kill. Dumbasses.
One of the must effective way to make your enemy commit mistakes is to taunt them to come out into the open ,so you can shoot them in less time.urinating on the enemies bodies will make the enemies lose their cool and make stupid decisions.they will come out to from hiding and attack you in force and in numbers. With air and artillery support you got the job done quickly and got a lot of enemy body counts .
You think its rude or unethical ,that all are just semantics or play of words. What counts most you make the taliban come into the open and finish them off faster in less time.
I just feel this is bad mark on the U.S. Marines, but don't get we wrong the bads do alot awful things too. However, we should not cross the line and why would they post this on youtube in first place knowing they going get their butts in trouble.
Bottom line — War is ****! As an Officer and Soldier I can assure you that unless you have lived the life of a deployed service member you have no idea of the mental, emotional, and physical toll that it will have on you. Though I am not justifying the actions of these Marines, I can see that somewhere they were lead astray. As stated in a couple earlier posts, people do both good and bad things. Their actions were definitely without a doubt unbecoming, unethical, and immoral. If proven guilty they should be punished for their crimes — yes crimes. We are all people. When we have received photos or videos of servicemen being murdered in Iraq or Afghanistan we want justice because someone violated one of our own ….. an American. No matter the situation we are ALL people and must treat each other as such. I love God, my country, family, fellow service men/women, and volunteered to do so well knowing the consequences. I will never forget the feelings I had and still have from May 7th 2004 when videos of the beheading of Nicholas Berg surfaced. Or on November 7th I shook the hand of a happy go lucky and one of a kind Non-commissioned officer SGT Lui Tumanuvao. Little did I know that approximately an hour later he would die in combat. After Deploying myself losing friends and fellow Soldiers in combat I can tell you — you have no idea unless you’ve been there.
It is a sad fact, but yes we ALL must answer for all of OUR actions. The worst part is that an act like this only provides fuel to fire more anti-Americanism semantics. However, an even Worse fact is that our American people, for the most part, grown cold in relation to our Campaigns in Iraq and Afganistan. Why don’t we see coverage of what’s going on in Afganistan? If and when we do 99.9% of the time it’s only negative coverage. Our military accomplishes tremendous tasks and missions in some of the most austere conditions imaginable and the only thing we can see on the top news is what’s going on with Snooky or NFL updates. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want us to live with narcissism, but I would like for our military’s positive performance be recognized too.
War is ****!
Well,these are a lot better compared to your Grandpa Gen.John Pershing did it mindanao(philippines )in 1903 till 1915.All muslim rebels they killed especially those who run amok,their bodies were drench with pig's blood,pig's feces and pig's body buried with it.According to muslim traditions if a martyr or shahid dies by killing his enemies he will go to "heaven" with 72 virgins but if he dies with unclean things on his body he got zero and be thrown to hell.
You know what,that psych war tactics works,since then nobody muslim rebel wants to run amok and kill his enemies because he knows American soldier's under Gen.John Pershing have standing orders to pour pig's blood and bury their bodies with pig's carcasses.
I think the marines should try to do what your grandpa did.
The war and other stressful situations take a tramatic toll on our men and women in the military. We must show empathy for all. The leaders of our military must establish a department to deal with domestic and foreign tragedies ((suicides,AWOL,Discipline etc).All branches need to create a Human Resoures Officer : A colonel Billet. These HROs should be in each company.The duties of these officers are to serve the needs of their unit and all personnel.The HRO is to school/instruct/teach our Men and women about correct military conduct. They should have a working knowledge of the UCMJ.There should be no talorence of prejudice,bigotry, or racist remarks. Anyone guilty of this offense should be court martialed. We are The United States of America the standant bearers of Democracy.If we do not show respect for one another-OUR TROOPS! Who in the world will Respect/ BELIEVE IN US!!!!!
All of you that are "outraged and disgusted" by what these Marines did ought to go and put yourselves in their shoes. THEN tell me how you feel about these worthless bastards! I am so tired of whiny individuals sitting safe and comfy in their recliners watching the news that happens "over ther" and judging the service of those who sacrifice all in order for these same individuals to be able to sit on their ass and receive all the benefits. This is not news, folks. Where were your complaints when it was our heads being cut-off in Iraq, our bodies dragged through the streets of Somalia, and us locked away in Afghanistan! You care not for those who keep you safe but cry an ocean about the Moslems who would kill you now, if not for the sacrifice of these brave few. Take one moment away from your finger-pointing and imagine sitting through firefights, IEDs, and sniper fire and then imagine NOT lettting it get to you. THAT is reality. It is the psychology of war! Shame on you for your disrespect and apathy for those who keep you safe!!
UNTIL YOU WALK A MILE THEIR BOOTS, YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE OF WHATS GOING ON IN COMBAT. DO ANY OF YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW WHAT THE BAD GUYS DO TO OUR YOUNG PEOPLE OVER THERE? WAKE UP AMERICA. THIS IS A WAR,NOT FRIENDSHIP. THESE PEOPLE HATE USE JUST BECAUSE OF WHO WE ARE. I SERVED 26 MONTHS IN NAM AND I'VE SEEN ONE HELL OF ALOT WORSE. SEMPER FI.
I think this is an issue that should be handled inturnally by the Marine Corps. Having heard some of the stories my husband and our many friends have told me who have served in Afganistan. I realize this is not the image we want people to think of our troops. However, what is done is done. To my knowledge this is still under investigation. Perhaps your answer to civilians should be that sometimes kids do stupid things. This is what happens when we stay in a war zone for 10 years. The troops need a break. I personally am not offended. I am sure worse things have happened in war zones. However, this is the first war that has been publicized. Perhaps civilians and the military should both take a step back and say. Is this really that bad. Yes it hurts public image. But so did the group of military who killed civilians. Our Marines and any other branch for that matter they are just people. People make mistakes and sometimes make the wrong choice. Just get over it. Until you have walked a mile in their combat boots do not pass judgment.
Only “crime” here was it was video taped. They would’ve been better served by beheading them and leaving their heads on pikes to demoralize the enemy.
They should post more pics of what these terrorsts do to their own people let alone Americans! Indiscriminate IEDs, Mines, Bombings muders/ torture of their own people! U.S Special Operators operating in small teams, for years were "issued suicide pills" rather than be captured and tortured! How about posting the pics of the two murder bombers picked off by the Barrett 50cal Snipers, (head shots) who were heading for a village square to blow up NATO, their own police & civilians , too? Their snipers and morter crews set up in front of villages to pick off US and Nato forces because they know the response if any will be limited! Its the way these slimey cowards "fight!" BTW dont forget these are the same "folks" who grow and export 80% of the world's opium! Lastly what had these dead insurgents "done" to these Marines? AND Panetta and the rest of the Washington DC bureaucrtas for the most part, have NEVER SERVED or put themselves in harmsway as GRUNTS!
My boyfriend is currently deployed and I completely agree. The very next day at work after that video came out my coworkers could not stop asking me questions about it. "Was he involved?", "Did he ever do something like that?", "Why are Marines so disrespectful?", etc. It was a disaster. I spent the better part of my day doing damage control and defending those who defend our freedom.
Just because 1 teacher has an affair with a student doesn't make all of them sexual predators. Just because one police officer uses unnecessary force doesn't make them all dangerous. Same with the military.
Retired Colonel/Current Congressman Allen West on the Incident:
“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah. All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq? The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter. As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."
Ricosniper. Just left of your keyboard is a button, about an inch long. It has written on it "Caps Lock". Just press it once and continue to type.
Ricosnipers Grandad: " And then kid, I undid my fly and pee'd on the dead German. It wasn't good enough that I had shot him. Or that he had been forced to fight for a dictator. Or that he was far from his family too… I had to also pee on him. Because World War II wasn't won by the combined arms and bravery of the allies. It was won by me. Because I pee'd on a bunch of dead Germans."
I don't think those Marines were pissing on the enemy because they were Muslim, I think it was because they were trying to kill them earlier in the day…
– It's just URINE, they didn't cut their heads off and put them on sticks .
Semper Fi,.. War is hell isn't it ?