The Fort Carson soldier who notified a spouse of her husband’s downrange death using Facebook could face dishonorable discharge, prison time and loss of wages, a JAG official told us.
Depending on what an Army investigation uncovers, the soldier would likely be prosecuted under Article 92 of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which covers violations of direct and lawful general orders, the JAG official, who did not wish to be identified, said.
Ariell Taylor-Brown learned that her husband, Staff Sgt. Christopher Brown, had been killed downrange when a female soldier from his platoon sent her a Facebook message saying that there was an emergency, and to please call her. When Ariell called, the soldier broke the news, Ariell told a Columbus, Ohio news station. The official notification team arrived at her door several hours later. The couple has two young children and Ariell is pregnant with their third.
The soldier who contacted Ariell is currently not deployed, and had learned of Staff Sgt. Brown’s death through a second stateside soldier, who had in turn been told by someone downrange, Fort Carson officials said. While officials would not say whether or not those soldiers will be prosecuted and will not confirm that an order was disobeyed or that OPSEC was violated, it is clear from the chain of events that something went terribly wrong.
Whether or not the soldiers will be prosecuted under Article 92 depends on the Army investigation, Fort Carson officials told us, and whether they are found to have violated a direct or indirect order, the JAG official said.
“All Soldiers downrange are instructed not to discuss any deaths until DoD officially releases the name of the Soldier (24 hours after next of kin Notification),” Master Sgt. Craig Zentkovich, a public affairs official with the 4th Infantry Division wrote in an email. “The brigade is currently investigating the incident to determine whether soldier(s) disobeyed an order and if further action will be necessary.”
But a commenter on this post, who claims to be from Staff Sgt. Brown’s unit, said that they did have a mandatory class on the notification process. If the soldier who called Ariell was in that unit, as Ariell told the news station she was, then she did know the process and was violating an order – as were the other two soldiers involved.
“I knew SSG Brown. 4/4 had a mandatory class that dealt with the notification process, and all soldiers were told not to take it in their own hands,” the commenter, who identified himself as “4/4 Soldier,” wrote. “This female in his platoon needs to be made an example of, she knew what she was doing and she … knew it was wrong.”
Staff Sgt. Brown was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 12th Infantry Regiment, 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division.
About Amy Bushatz
Comments
I understand what she did was wrong. But I would want to know about my husband as soon as possible and I think it was only a thing of care that they did. I would be upset if they kept it from me for the processing of things. I'm pretty sure you ask this woman if she wants to press charges….she don't. Because in a cilvilian's life. She done the right thing as a caring friend. That's what I have to say bout that.
Stupid Soldier, that’s why they should do away with the Army and bump the Marines up to the main fighting force. She knew better and she still broke the rules, send her to prison. Maybe time in the slammer will shut that big
Mouth up
Did you forget Band of brothers.. We need to stick together no matter what Branch.. The ones prosecuting are'nt even if the front lines!!!!!
Ignorance is bliss, Chris and you are very happy. The incident does not matter if its marine or army, get real.
Try being a deployed soldiers wife sometime. Not saying wrong or right on the soldier but as a wife I would want to know ASAP.
The Marines have just as much problems as the Army. The Marines are a branch of the Army and cannot support themselves. The Marines get there stuff from the Army and they use the Army's training schools because the Marines have none. You must be a Marine yourself because your ego is out the door. Respect all branches and stop stereotyping one.
Technically, the Marines are a branch off of the Navy. :) However, the Marines and Army do closely work together in Combat Zones and high threat areas. No matter what branch you may serve with, you are still part of the less than 1% of Americans that serve their country in this manner…. Be proud of the little imprint you are able to leave as one of our Nations defenders. Dont dishonor yourself or our military by letting your ego get swollen. We're brothers in arms. We stand united.
Marines are a branch of the Navy not Army
The Navy is their TAXI ride!!! No offense intended! Just trying to bring humor!!! My respects to all our fellow soldiers!!!!!
I only say the army should be replaced by the Marines because Marines are better. Look from the start at boot camp, Marines are pushed harder to be more proficient, stronger, and definitely more respectable. I am a Marine and proud to say that. I’ve worked with and been around the army I combat and garrison, I know how most of them are towards their superiors and its a shame. If only they were taught from the beginning
The branch does not matter. Every soldier and every branch is important and every branch has people who do not obey command. Acting righteous and above other branches is not the way of the marines and quite frankly makes all marine posters look pompous and full of yourselves. Plenty of mistakes have been made by ALL branches.
every branch has less than acceptable soldiers. The marines have just as many as any branch. The last marine I knew personally popped hot on three….THREE drug tests before they discharged him…and he still screams semper fi at any oppurtunity….it is not a branch issue it is a strength of character issue and the soldier who sent the facebook message was in the wrong no matter what branch she hails from.
You must be proud since you weren't accepted into college that you were able to make it somewhere in a combat field. How old are you, 17, 18?? Goodness for your sake, please lie! It would look MUCH BETTER to all those shaking their heads now in disbelief that someone so ignorant could be serving our forces. Almost as bad as a woman who tried to contact another woman to tell her that her husband died, across Facebook! Your perspective is biased- and you don't know what you are talking about- I doubt you know much outside of your own little world mainly because you're too arrogant to open your eyes to anything else around you. Yeah, good luck with that in the future.
Firstly, Chris, there aren’t enough marines to replace the army, secondly, each MOS has their specific and unique duties that help all fellow soldiers. For instance, my husband is a combat engineer, “Engineers lead the way” because they clear the IEDs you may run over and get killed from. So instead of saying your branch is better than an entire of branch maybe you should open your eyes and look at all the different MOSes our soldiers do to HELP your ignorant self. You sound like a stupid stereotypical egotistical jarhead so please just stop with your “marines are holier than thou” posts and grow up. You’re obviously not an NCO yet because you have no respect for you fellow soldiers.
Firstly, Chris, there aren’t enough marines to replace the army, secondly, each MOS has their specific and unique duties that help all fellow soldiers. For instance, my husband is a combat engineer, “Engineers lead the way” because they clear the IEDs. So instead of saying your branch is better than an entire of branch maybe you should open your eyes and look at all the different MOSes our soldiers do to HELP your ignorant self. You sound like a stupid stereotypical egotistical jarhead so please just stop with your “marines are holier than thou” posts and grow up. You’re obviously not an NCO yet because you have no respect for you fellow soldiers.
Uh, it's Rangers Lead The Way. RLTW! :)
They don't have it copyrighted. Several MOSs say the same thing.
I'm sorry Trev, actually the Marines are part of the Navy; i've never seen an achor in any Army badge…
Trev to correct your statement the reason that all military schools are combined now is strictly a budget issue that started with base closing. And yes I am a SFC army retired
Oh yeah because the Marines have set such better examples. Ridiculous and has nothing to do with this situation.
Soldiers are soldiers , Marines are not soldiers. Marines are Marines let’s get that straight right now
Hey Chris try service member, that covers everyone. You must be one of the Dumb, and very young, Marines. Others I have worked with are much smarter than you sound here.
v/r
Al D'Adda
Again your ignorance shines through. I am in the US ARMY, Infantry and have been serving for 23 years. So to me you are a young service-member, and the fact that you responded as such indicates your low self-esteem. You need to insult others to feel better about yourself. In fact I would infer that you were treated the same all your life.
As I informed Pv2 on another post, Al does not imply one of Arab decent, I have heritage of Italian, German, French and Welch. The name Al is short for Alfred smart guy, it is also short for Allan, Alice, and even Alicia. You would do yourself a favor and enroll in some English classes along with US History as well.
Keep up the good work it is entertaining to see you rant.
v/r
Al D'Adda
Al D'Adda,
Don't waste your time with Chris. Either you are right and he is wet behind the ears and straight out of boot camp or he never served at all and is just a wanna be. I've worked with all branches of service during my 26 years with the Army and never ran into anyone worth a salt that didn't look at each other as brothers (and sisters) under the same flag in spite of the pride they have in their specific service.
@ Guest,
I see your point but for myself I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I have never met the guy in person so that is why I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
v/r
Al D'Adda
You're right Marines are different. They are the most brainwashed of them all.
Crystal, we are brainwashed. Brainwashed to ignore stupid people like you
Hey Chris i bet your not even in the core and if you are you have never been deployed. Your an idiot!!!
A real Marine
Stipid soldier??? Really wow doesnt matter what branch you are in people mess up. The marines isnt any better than any other branch. The fact is some spouses of soldiers don't know half of what they should know. Doesnt matter the branch! Some military spouses dont even tell there spouse whats going on and what laws and rules they need to know. Maybe the other half dont go to meetings that the different military branches have. Such as FRG or the deployment briefings given to family members before the soldier is deployed. All in all we are brothers and sisters in arms doesnt matter the branch. I know darn well Im not going to leave a marine behind just bc he or she is not in the same branch as me…….smh….. and we are fighting together for our country… As far as the death goes and being notified… rules are rules people know this and if I was being notified I wouldnt want to be notified that way just doesnt seem respectful and what if it just happen to be a slip up and there was no death.. come on we all know the telephone game.. Point blank it needs to be an Official person.
Really? Bump the Marines up because they have so much integrity. When I was in the Army I was stationed at a joint service base and two Marines that were stationed there, that I had met, were charged and convicted of slitting the throat of a woman who was jogging just outside the base. Please, Marines Fuck up too!
Omg! You sound so dumb!
JARHEAD24-7 Oooraahh to you.
i understand the knowing as soon as possible but what if they got the information wrong? You would be devastated and mean while your husband is alive! There is a reason for protocol and it’s not to be mean or sneaky it is to make sure the news is accurate and precise.
Becca u must be dull. The official notification team is trained in crisis management. They are there to help with the kids and know what to do to help the grieving. This is a very special job. Being told by Facebook was a horrible thing. She was there alone, pregnant with her small children. Something horrible could have easily happened
the whole point of this is that the wife was offended. that soldier was in the wrong. what if the wife was in the middle of traffic (not saying its okay to talk while driving) but during the shock of the phone call got into a car wreck and accidentally killed her unborn baby. As an ARMY WIFE, who has two kids and has been through a couple of deployments, NEVER would it be okay to call me to say my husband is dead. how impersonal. if the lady was trying to be a "good friend" she would have found a way to tell her in person so that the wife had someone to console her immediately.
Ok you would want to know as soon as possible. However, what if the soldier had been wrong. I know from personal experience that one wife thought her husband had been injured, through the rumor mill. Well they got the name wrong so one wife went through heck for absolutely nothing. The rules are in place for a reason and should be followed. What if she had, had a miscarriage without anyone there to help her? What this solider did was wrong and should be punished to fullest extent.
You should have stopped at "I understand what she did was wrong."
To begin with, she was passing on a rumor, she did not have direct knowledge of his death. What would have happened if he was alive? Secondly, information such as casualties in a unit are considered sensitive and maybe even classified, so passing that information is a violation of the UCMJ. Also, it is not up to the spouse whether to prosecute, she is not in the chain of command. My thoughts and prayers go out to Mrs. Brown.
Read the other article. The spouse said that was a terrible way to find out. So yeah she probably would press charges. No one wants to hear that kind of news. But let those trained to deliver it do just that. It’s all part of the lifestyle, you know that going in. Take the good with the bad. Where is the honor and dignity in the soldier who did that. She should be ashamed because she knew better. She don’t belong in the military if she can’t obey orders! And for the record Becca, she isn’t part of the “civilian life” as you referred. The military takes care if it’s own has does things their way for a reason.
I think they should allow someone in uniform to tell you, out of pure respect.
Are you kidding me? She was no FRIEND. This soldier did the WRONG thing and took it upon herself as a nosy busybody and opened her mouth when she had no damn right.
clearly you are not a military spouse. the fact that you can even say that she did the right thing is so ingnorant and stupid. yeah you would want to know about your husbands death asap. but not through petty social media and regular convo. a military death is a level beyond because you spend the entire deployment on pins and needles praying the notification doesnt come. so to find out by someone not close to you through hearsay is devastating. theres a reason this process is in place so don't sympathize with an insubordinate idiot because that makes you look exactly the same.
I'm sorry you are an idiot. Obviously you have no clue on this life style. She had children with her and they didn't need to see their mother react to the awful news without support around her. People that are going to be there right next to her to help console her and her children through this heartbreaking ordeal.
I'm pretty sure this woman is HORRIFIED of being notified of the way she was . I'm guessing you are not a spouse of a military man . I would press charges . This soldier obviously knew that what she was doing was wrong and should be punished as such
They dont keep it from you to torture you…. There is a confirmation process that is in place for a reason…. We had a soldier call his wife right after a group of our soldiers out on a convoy had been hit by an IED…. This soldier told his wife so and so was injured but the soldiers injuries werent life threatening… The spouse took it upon herself to call the wife of the 'injured' soldier to tell them that her husband is just fine that her husband had called and told her so…… Less than two hours later, the wife of the 'ijured' soldier received a knock on the door notifiying her of her husbands death……. We have procedures for a reason… Out of respect for soldiers and their familie our procedures need to be followed… There is a confirmation process in order to ensure that the right family is notified… They dont release names until ALL families of ALL KIA's have been notified so that families dont find out through facebook, news reports or rumors……
I agree with you. My husbnd is curretly deployed and I would want ALL of them to follow "the rules" when it comes to a death and I would hate to have someone jump the gun and tell me my husband is OKAY then have them come to my door telling me he is dead..
This story is one of those "he said this" she "said that" let me just facebook her to do her a favor and it turned out not to be a favor at all… I think that they were in violation of OPSEC. I am a new Amy wife and when my husband came home for R&R I said "a few days or so" they (idk how got my personal email that I do not use for anything but FB/youtube and other sites) and I got a big NO NO e-mail… I never thought might possiably be endangering the lives of our soldiers.
The Military takes care of their familie and they want to make sure that there is some one with the families when they are notified.. You dont know how the families are going to act.. To tell them of their soldiers death over the phone, without being able to be there to comfort them or tend to their needs is cold hearted and dishonorable… This woman is pregnant with two small children at home.. What if she had an anxiety attack, went into early labor, fainted, wanted to harm herself due to the devastating news… No one would have been there.. We have a Casualty officers and Care teams in order to ensure that the family isnt left alone and has support til their own family or support team is able to arrive…… This isnt a 'Civilians' life… We have a code, we honor our heros who pay the ultimate sacrifice and we hold sacred the families that have the loss of their Soldier.
Sorry, I didn't mean to give you a thumbs down. I tried to click the thumbs up. I am an army wife and I would not want to be notified via Facebook. You explained it so well.
So nicely written! I'm a retired military member and I would not want my family notified in any other way than by the casualty officers.
Its ok. :)….. Youll have to excuse the typos and missed words.. I was a little irritated while pounding out a response on the keyboard and didnt go back to proofread before posting….. :|
What the heck is an 'indirect order'? Last I heard there were only two kinds, Direct orders and Lawful orders.
That person mispoke, there is no mention of direct or indirect orders in the UCMJ, only lawful orders and regulations. I think they might have been thinking lawful orders and regulations. Regulations are posted, but not directly given to an individual, whereas, lawful orders are directly given to an individual.
Pete — You are correct I made a mistake (which has been to fixed). I intended to write "general order" and confused an explanation I had read of what that constitutes with the correct phraseology. Thanks for the catch!
An Indirect Order is an order that is implied through regulation. A Direct order is when you give the order to the Soldier or Soldiers.
Well this is close in terminology – Unless it has changed since I retired, A Direct Order is issued by a commissioned officer and a Lawful Command is issued by an Non-Commissioned Officer. Ther was no term as Indirect Order (Makes no sense to me).
The soldier who notified her, even though not downrange, still knew what she was doing was wrong and should not have done it. Her, as well as the other two involved, need to face disciplinary action or else this is going to be a reoccurring problem. You know you are not supposed to ever tell someone this kind of news- that is why there are notification teams. This soldier did not even go to her to tell her in person; if she was worried about her, she should have done that. How did she know how the wife would react? Again, that is why there are notification teams. They are trained, and they can help get a spouse/next of kin on the right track and are physically there in case of a really bad reaction. This wife is pregnant, and has two children- what if she was driving? What if she became so distraught that she suffered a mental breakdown? As a soldier, you KNOW BETTER than to take this into your own hands. If you hear about something like this, do not take it into your own hands. Wait until the notification team has informed the next of kin, and then see if you can be of help to said next of kin. That's what being 'helpful' is about.
Oh, and Chris? You're an idiot. Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard.. they've all had their share of screw ups, and it is the individual who screwed up. Like the others said, Band of Brothers. We are in this together, fighting the same fight, doing what needs to be done.
I’m no idiot, just better informed and more knowledgable about the situation stupid civilian
Chris, you should be ashamed of yourself. I can tell that the Marine Corps didn’t teach you anything about respect. I learned better respect from my mother when I was four, SMH. I’m sure you are some eighteen year old kid fresh out of boot-camp who hasn’t seen any action yet, but still thinks he knows everything. I would be ashamed to call you my battle-buddy.
Nicole I have no reason to be ashamed of the truth. I’m a seasoned Veteran to my beloved Corps with 3 combat deployment, 2 to Iraq and 1 to Afghanistan. I have respect, just none to people who have no idea what their talking about( like you). You have anything else to say Smart stuff? You wouldn’t be my battle buddy anyway, Marines don’t have women in infantry, you can’t trust them to pull the trigger.
Oh Chris, you are entertaining to read, very much so. I would go so far as to state you are the type who waits fro retirement not plan for it.
So Chris if you are so insightful please enlighten us on what we are naive about. Surely in your short stint of what, 3 maybe 4 years of service you seem to know the truth. Perhaps you are Socrates re-incarnated to deliver the human race from their physical form. Standing by Chris.
v/r
Al D'Adda
I only wish I was Socrates re-incarnated then I would have all the answers now wouldn't I. The only thing I was trying to state is that maybe the Army should train like the best, The Marines. Go ahead look on youtube and see the differences in boot camp, the honor, the commitment. I actually was spent 6 years in the Marines until I lost my arm from an IED blast. I know what I know, Ive seen how the Army is and no offense to the wives and spouses but their husband/ wives picked the wrong branch. Yes things have happened in each branch but things have happened more often in the Army. We piss on taliban and the army takes pictures with their corpses. We're you in the service?
I think Chris is Trolling! And very well if I may add. Careful not to drink the cool-aid too much Chris ; )
Finally someone with some intelligence! Good catch
You know Chris I think your rant is deeper than just pissed off at the other services. It goes deeper, perhaps and inventory needs to be taken.
As entertaining as I find this I do see a dangerous point in the anger you display here. You lost your arm to and IED, so will this be the defining point at which you chose to remain in your life? As I stated earlier there are those who prepare for retirement and those who wait for it. Which one are you?
This is not me being a smart a$$ but as a leader in the Infantry I know which one I have chosen to be, and know what I have instilled in those whom I have served with still present and not present.
v/r
Al D'Adda
Oh Tiffanyhe got you…oh man that is such a burn…ohhhhhhh. LOL!!!!
Chris once again you are very entertaining to read, does the statement :stupid civilian" include your family as well? I ask because you seem to have forgotten those stupid civilians have a vote, they can be a mob that goes against the military as whole when they vote as well. In fact those stupid civilians, who are on the defense budget board, have a huge say in our future. For example retirement, BAH, Combat pay, Family separation and the list goes on. But they surely must be stupid indeed, after all we abide by their laws that we vote on.
v/r
Al D'Adda
You probably were excited when those Marines were video taped peeing on dead Afganis werent you? Imbecile.
This soldier should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. There is no soldier, sailor, airman or marine out there that does not know of the notification process and why it is in place. Failure to comply is a direct violation, end of story. I don't even care about the other soldiers that passed the info on between soldiers, the person that told someone other than military personnel is the violator.
I definitely believe these actions deserve prison. These folks cannot play stupid and make allegation they did not know the notification process.
This has been common to happen more & more on FB I can relate to spouses or families who’ve found out of their spouse or son being injured or died overseas,another soldier tells his parents or spouse then it is passed down to others who are close to the soldier & then finally getting to the spouse or parent,& the person who ends up notifying or informing you or sending their condolences might not know the DOD has notified you or not “It is a terrible way to find out through face book, opsec is not respected or taken serious by many who do & have violated it here on opsec even after being instructed not to its still happening tip today,even vets who are now in rehab hospitals their personal info gets put out without their knowledge & I’ve Hello friends and family – the Martinez VA is trying to fix a room to be a relaxing space for the residents to study, read or just relax. They are in the process of painting the room, but will need some furniture. Can I ask all of you if you can send me IKEA gift cards and I will work with them to choose and purchase the items. The room is about 10×10, they want a desk and seen how upsetting it can be for them,but how can you monitor opsec vilation on FB ? freedom of speech vs violating OPSEC. If info is released by those who know they shouldnt be putting info out their that is violating opsec as oppose to getting this info by another parent,spouse or individual by another person whose loved one was involved in the same incident & assuming that parent or spouse already got notified because another parent or spouse got a gold of that information not realizing that resource was violating sharing that info in the 1st place with his parent releasing another soldiers medical status asides his own, then I feel it is not he fault of the person who emailed me about my husband status but the soldier who disclosed this info to his patent & then the parent sharing it with another whether the parent might not have done it with malice behind it or not aware of opsec the soldier should have known better,so I don’t put the blame on the other military spouse who innocently emailed her condolences to me nor the parent who shared my husband well being & status but the soldier who released the names of other soldiers involved in the same incident. Finding out serious -personal information like this on FB is not acceptable nor appropriate.
Really, after 10 years at this war how could ANY soldier not know that they are not supposed to call families, that their is a procedure for doing so. And the procedure is in place for a reason. Sometimes in the heat of battle and medevacs, its not always certain who was hurt and who died. We had 5 soldiers in a NTV that was hit by a mortar. There was not confirming who was lost and who survived and those who survived if they would make it through. The soldier from my husband's company wasn't even supposed to be on the detail that had gone out, another soldier had swapped with him at the last minute. Two of the soldiers were so badly burned, they couldn't ID the bodies until they could get dental records. The soldier from my husband's company survived the blast but they thought for certain he was going to die within hours. He did manage to survive, but it was an hour to hour, day by day thing for a very long time. Now how would you feel if you'd been told your husband died when he actually survived?
What if some spouse went totally off the deep end and killed herself after finding out over the phone that her husband was killed (we had a National Guard fiance that threatened to drive her car full speed into a tree if her soldier were killed) and then it turns out it wasn't her soldier who was killed? Especially in the case of a soldier who has a very common name, like in this case Brown? I had a friend who it was all over her husband's unit's RD that Capt "Smith" had been killed in Afghanistan, the RD had even called his brother and told him that. When my friend talked to her husband downrange the next day the glaring mistake came to light. Come to find out, an SFC "Smith", who was in RD, had died of a heart attack in his apartment. The unit had to track down the Captain and his brother and get everything straightened out, she said it got really ugly for a lot of people.
You can say all day long that you would rather know ASAP and not wait on protocol, but when it becomes real, you appreciate that someone was there with you when you were told. Someone who has been trained to deal with grief responses and can call friends, neighbors, someone to watch your kids, professionals if worst comes to worst. And that they know beyond a doubt that the person killed is your soldier.
Disregard something published on my comment about furniture for the Martinez VA I accidentally pasted that here (ugh)
Lots of comments here to respond to – As a Former Sailor and Soldier and currently Spouse of a Soldier deployed in Afghanistan – also a prior Leader to the Family Readiness Groups of the BN. I will say – what that Soldier did was wrong – period. The JAG will do what it needs to do. – I know all the Soldiers and Families of my Spouses unit – they are are very important to me but it is NOT their place to tell me, GOD FORBID – if anything happens to my Spouse. On the same note – as FRG Leaders we encourage the Families – to NOT get involved with something like this. Just not a positive thing to do. I hope that in the long run – ALL our SERVICEMEMBERS – are treated with the respect they deserve. No bashing of one branch to another – that is disappointing and would expect better from those that do.
Judge Roy Bean had just sentenced a horse thief to hang when the criminal asked if it was fair that he had to hang for stealing a horse. The Judge replied that he wasn't going to hang for stealing a horse…he was going to hang so other horse thieves would think twice about stealing one from now on! This Facebooker has to do some jail time so it will be obvious to future Soldiers, Airmen and Marines that you don't buck the notification system because you think it is slow.
This person who called is the same as the neighborhood "Gossip Monger."
There are people on this earth who just cannot wait to tell (anyone) the latest news.
Basically they are people who just want to feel important, being the center of attention
and knowing somethng that "nobody knows" (yet).
Making it "exciting" for them to be the "first" to inform their "victim."
This Gossip Monger should be facing charges, do some prison time, and put out of the Army.
I am very sorry that this family had to be notified of the loss (at all), but even more sorry that it had to
happen this way.
John Callahan, you have this female soldier pegged exactly, after she gets out of the military prison and is a civilian, she will be the scourge of some unlucky people in their neighborhood. She will be the Mrs Kravatz of the neighborhood and everyone will hate her and avoid her.
Widow of US Army Retired MSGT
Victim of Agent Orange
Ladies & Gentleman. Yes, I am 'Old Army' no doubt after spending 25 years on AD, and 3 months
shy of 5 years in NG & USAR Units, retiring in 1986. I have served both as a Casualty Notification
NCO & as a Casualty Notification Officer in addition to being a Survival Assistance Officer.
I have had all types of experiences when notifying next of kin. All were much appreciated by the
family's. It is not an easy job but must be done very professionally.
My thoughts are, as I have seen published to date, what happened is a court-martial violation
(UCMJ). I can think of no extenuation or mitigation circumstances that would prevent a Court
Martial Board from finding an individual guilty. Sorry about that, but who ever should be
court-martialled. It must be established that the services will court-martial violators.
Is it really too much to expect that those who should know better — especially fellow service
members — just show a little decency and respect?
From a 'Lifer' who was a DAT (Tanker).
I've been following the news and the SpouseBuzz commentary about this issue since the first FB notification instance. Here's the deal: I can tell you that when a soldier is KIA not only does the entire unit downrange go black, a notification goes out to the ENTIRE Rear D telling them to sit on the news until the proper notification has been made. Let me repeat, every single soldier attached to that unit whether downrange or Rear D is to keep their mouth shut until the proper notification has been made. That notice is sent out from command level to the private.
Therefore the soldier who took it upon herself to notify the family did so in complete and utter violation of established protocol.
No matter what anyone thinks he or she may want for their own personal notification if a loved one is injured of killed in defense of this country, in this instance the soldier went far outside her lane. There are zero excuses that that soldier can make for her actions. That soldier violated clear protocol. Period.
Wait until all the facts are in before judging her. There may be mitigating circumstance that are in play. If she waited the 24 hour protocol rule than she followed orders. If that is the case than perhaps protocol should be changed. If not than she should be held accountable for her actions. Although not perfect, UCMJ is in place as well as lawful orders that have repercussions for disobedience, however let the justice system evaluate all the facts before we pass judgement SFC Retired D. Johnson.
I think the point was the way she did it. It has nothing to do with waiting 24 hours and following orders. She was stateside and it was not her job nor her responsibility to take what had trickled down the line from 2 other soldiers to tell the spouse anything. That's prorocol and that's why there are people trained to deliver that sort of news. They don't do it over a social network site or via the telelphone. There is a reason they come to your house. I agree that there may be mitigating circumstances but nonetheless, she shouldn't have made that call.
If she had waited until 24 hours after notification, she wouldn't have been the one who notified the spouse.
Hard for me to believe any soldier past basic training does niot understand that it "is not" there job to do death notifications. Exactcly waht kind od ego trip lead up to this clusterflup? There is some need to understand her motivation because it was probably done out of spite. Take here out behind the motorpool for some wall to wall counselling, throw her but in jail for a while, give her a DD. Along with anyother solder involved in this.
There are specific Army Regulation that cover notification procedures. The Army has been doing this
for many years. If procedures were not followed, then the Army will investigate. Lets not convict
the soldier until all the facts are investigated. Thats why soldiers live with the UCMJ. I feel sorry for the
spouse that learned about their loved one passing away.
To those calling for "wait and see"….nope, sorry. This should NEVER happen. A deployed, female service member calling the wife of a deployed male service member saying there is an emergency? I don't care if the two women have been friends since kindergarten at least some part of the wife's mind is going to wonder if the husband and her are fooling around. Then when she finds out the emergency is her husband is dead that same notion will percolate because EVERYONE knows that is NOT the way such information is normally passed. So why would the other woman break the rules to do so unless it was because she was trying to cover something up?
I'm not saying she was, but I GUARANTEE you that thoughts like that ran and may still be running through the wife's head. There is a very good reason we have set procedures for such notifications and EVERY service member knows this. There is NO excuse for violating these rules. I would not give her a dishonorable discharge, but I suspect I would remove her from the service.
Exactly what jumped into my head when I read about this….and I am a military spouse..and I am well aware of how many servicemembers sleep with the other ones; not caring of the USMJ rules at all. I do believe the person or persons involved need to be disciplined as per the UCMJ rules. Why have rules if they are not followed and why would you not carry out those rules or make exceptions? Rules are rules..follow them.
I agree. Especially in the military where they pride themselves in honor and discipline. Where were those traits in this soldier who took it upon herself to do someone else's job in which she was not trained for?
If every service member who broke one rule or another were prosecuted and jailed, then we wouldn't have a military. Right or wrong, service members are human too and will make mistakes. The story says the wife was notified over Facebook, but in reality she wasn't, another exaggeration of the media to sell stories and dehumanize people. I can't judge this service member because it's not my job and I am human too and subject to mistakes.
While we wait and see what will happen to this gossip mongering soldier who disobeys orders, I would like to hear an apology from the Army. The last incident, via text message was put to rest with the Big Army blaming spouses, and no acknowledgement of soldier responsibility. An apology from the Army on this, as soldiers being the root of the information getting to spouses would go a long way toward restoring my faith in the systems and chain of command.
I agree that there ought to be some soldier responsibility because yes, most of the time the spouses would not know anything if their soldier hadn't told them first. But, I also think that the brunt of it does belong to the spouses because they are the ones that take it upon thereselves to blab. In my experience their spouse needs to vent and since you are married, seems to be the appropriate thing to trust your spouse with whatever you need to get off your chest. As a military wife I, like many others, understand that there is a code and you not only have to honor your vows to your husband/wife but also to the military as hard as that is sometimes. But I agree there is blame to be given to both sides, I just don't think it should all be on the soldier who confides in his spouse. The blabbing spouse broke trust. I do think there are a lot of spouses out there though that don't belong.
The spouse didn't make the notification here. It was a soldier that heard that the service member had died and took it upon themselves to relay this info to the wife. The only spouse in this situation here is the one who was notified. I think you need to re read the article.
im good i keep looking after my fam my brothers r overseas someone has 2 look after them _ilook after all those who never had a chance 4 the marines 4 all gave ther life so we could sleep at peace tonight. amen
Who cares about orders – what these soldiers did was crass and disrespectful to soldier's wife by notifying her in this way. They should definitely be discharged.
Being a Retired Soldier of (20yrs) i have always beelieved that the actions of a "Subordinate) is in my opinion a "Direct" reflection of the type leader he or she has.. I believe that from the very beginning not enough was said or done to prevent the "Info" from being given out so the record should show that the breakdowhn on communication and leadership caused this unfortunate sitituation. I Pray that this will be considered during the "Court Martial"..
To who ever mentioned that people join the military did it because they where not accepted in any college “you are wrong”!!!!!!! There are plenty of educated military personnel……please please research before you speak!!!! So you do not end up looking sounding so uneducated yourself!
I have a friend who was on an exercise in CONUS, had an injury and was evac'd to the hospital. The unit never followed up on his status but they got some garbled msg that he had has a heart attack and died. The unit called his mother, not his wife, who freaked out. When he was released the next day he called his wife and she told him that HQ had done a death notification and he stormed into the HQ and started raising all kinds of heck and the COL came in and saw him and turned white. The COL asked if he could return to field duty. When he indicated he was the COL said I'll take you out there cuz your memorial service is scheduled for 30 mins from now and I want you to make an appearance at it. A few days later, back from the field, he's getting ready for work and his wife gets a call from the hospital saying that they had misplaced his body. His wife laughed and told them to hang on because his body was right there getting ready for work if they wanted to speak to him.
That screw up alone is reason enough to have proper procedures followed!
It may not have been proper but does it deserve prison time or a dishonorable discharge? No. Keep things in perspective. The soldier was compelled by compassion to notify a loved one. It is an act of human nature and ethical action. You imprison and reprimand people who kill innocent people not people notifying loved ones of a loss. That's just common sense and I think tons of people would be outraged to hear of that. Give her a warning and at this moment, the solder's probably already scared enough about what might happen and has already learned her lesson. Time and energy should be spend on bigger issues, like consoling the loved ones or dealing with acts of uncalled violence. Two wrongs don't make a right. She's learned her lesson. I'm disgusted at how an act of compassion can be taken the wrong way. And no, she doesn't "need to be made an example of" through reprimand. Those words resound like a mob about to lynch someone. Really???! Is that what this has come down to? We're fighting to keep peace, let's not forget the higher mission.
If this was an act of compassion, the soldier would have been more concerned about the spouse's mental state after the news was given. Instead, the spouse was notified via phone, while she had no immediate support available. This does not convey compassion. She does need to be made an example of because she was informed of the proper procedures and she completely disregarded them along with placing the spouse in a precarious position while she was responsible for the care of her 2 children. What she did was wrong on so many levels and she needs to be held responsible for her behavior.
And what happens if the official notification team screws up? Then what? Are you going to imprison the whole team? Mistakes happen and this is a gross overreaction. She's learned her lesson. Now let's move on to more important issues.
I can guarantee that this spouse didn't want to find out over the phone that her husband had been killed. The poor woman is pregnant and has 2 young children. What if she had passed out? Who would have taken care of the kids? The Army gives this information out as soon as they possibly can, after they get together a casualty assistance officer and usually a chaplain. Then they stay with the spouse until they have someone else there to help them out. Imagine trying to take care of 2 small children after hanging up the phone from news like that. On top of which, if the information had been wrong, this woman would have suffered for no reason. Discipline is what the military is all about. I was in, I've been a spouse and now I'm a parent. If your members don't have discipline then your unit is sunk. I was a Marine, but I've known a lot of fine soldiers/Airman and sailors. I've also known Marines I wish I had never known. We draw from an imperfect society so the members of our services are also imperfect. Try as we might to be perfect, it's never going to happen. This soldier will face the discipline she deserves. She didn't do the spouse any favors.
Fb is not the most sensitive way to notify someone of death because voice, emotion, professionalism and interest in keeping family at loss calm is missing. Fb'ing someone in the military makes other soldiers feel that they are less important if they can't always contact.
Maybe if the Fb sender could prove the family asked/pushed for early/'special' notification, and maybe it could seem like it was more the receiver of the bad news' fault.
She did not follow protocol, however she does not deserve to go to jail or be dishonorably discharged. Facebook and chat and technology has made it almost impossible to regulate. Just like the woman talking to her husband on Skype. What are we going to shut down Skype?
I am not so sure I would press for jail time in this incident. Yeah, there are pros and cons to what she did and it is out of her boundary of responsiblity. Actually. if she would have thought it through, she may have seen the problems it could have caused that she could not have handled. I am sure her intentions were good; it was her lack of sound judgment that got in the way. She does need to be held accontable for this action possibly in form of severe corporal punishment to bring her back to reality and remember where here duties begin and end.
I think being notified of the death of a loved one via Facebook or email is very inappropriate and sad. The fact that an Army spouse found out about the death of her husband/Soldier in this manner is troubling. The Army has rules and regulations that are designed to prevent things like this from happening. It is a disservice to the deceased Service Member’s family to be notified in any other way than OFFICIAL. That is my main problem with the entire incident. I’m not sure if jail time should be pursued; however, I do believe there should be some punitive action taken against offenders. I also believe that this should be used as a teaching opportunity so that others do not make the same mistake. I want to believe the good in people that they sometimes make mistakes because they were trying to be helpful or informative but not realizing the negative consequence/impact that it could cause. Yet, having said that – it is difficult to imagine what the individuals might have found “helpful/informative” about releasing this sensitive information via FACEBOOK to the spouse after the unit had supposedly been trained on notification procedures. I am sad to hear that some of our Service Members are not disciplined enough to abide by Army rules and regulations and not only that but they don’t realize the magnitude of their service and the honor and valor that goes along with their service. When one of our Service Members dies down range their families deserve a lot more honor and respect than to be notified of their family member’s death via Facebook. Facebook can be a wonderful social tool to stay in touch with loved ones, friends, co-workers and so on but when it is used to relay sensitive information such as the death of a loved one that is deployed honorably serving our country it makes me wonder what are people thinking – or are we not thinking??