When Army spouse Tamara Algots was seen in the Schofield Barracks, Hawaii commissary Feb. 25 breastfeeding her baby in her Ergo baby carrier she was told by a commissary employee to either stop or leave.
“I was shocked because I feed my baby in the commissary all the time,” Algots told us in an interview. “I started tearing up and just left — left my cart full in the middle of the aisle and just walked out.”
Algots was not the only one with that experience – a second nursing mom was told the same thing Feb. 26. Now Hawaii Army officials are reviewing installation breastfeeding rules and considering a policy to “maintain good order and discipline on the installation,” with the aim of “maintaining a reasonable standard that is in keeping with Army values and community expectations,” U.S. Army Garrison Hawaii officials said in a series of statements posted to Facebook.
Garrison commanders have legal leeway to make rules for their installation as they see fit under U.S. Code Title 10 . Both commissary and AAFES officials told us in statements that they personally do not make such policies but simply follow local installation rules.
The Schoffield Barracks commissary enforces the dress code used by the rest of the post, and illustrates it in pictures on a sign as you enter the building. They also have a room set aside for nursing mothers. The dress code does not address public breast feeding or specifically order feeding mothers to use the room.
Algots said she did not use the room because she had her toddler with her. She said her baby, who was born premature and nurses on demand due to weight concerns, will not eat when covered by a blanket.
The incident was first brought to officials’ attention when first a friend and then Algots herself posted about it during a garrison Facebook town hall event Feb. 28. In her post Algots cited a federal law in her defense as well as Hawaii state law, both of which protect mothers’ rights to breastfeed in public and do not require them to use any covers.
However, state law does not apply to military installations. And while federal law does clearly state it applies to any federal property the military installation may be exempt from following it if the garrison commander deems it necessary, several Military.com JAG sources told us. Other JAG sources said, however, that the law would come down on the side of the Algots.
Garrison Commander Col. Daniel Whitney and the Garrison’s senior NCO, Command Sgt. Maj. Philip Brunwald told Algots and her husband in a private meeting between them and several staff and commissary officials that they will be making a new policy to address the issue, Algots said.
“(Col. Whitney) made it very clear that they do not have to follow federal laws. I kind of found it humorous that he had said it 10 times just to make sure I got it in my head that he could make a ruling,” Albers said. “They made it very clear that a policy was going to be put in place, but they didn’t say what they were going to include. It seemed to us that they really want to see how much they could get away with saying (in the policy) — like you have to use a cover or whatever.”
Algots said she posted her complaint on the Facebook page to help educate officials, including the commissary employee who spoke to her, about the rights of breastfeeding mothers — not to raise a ruckus. She said she does not plan to protest whatever ruling the commander makes.
“I wasn’t going to say anything because it was probably just somebody who didnt know the laws. I didnt want to start a campaign. I didn’t want to be that person,” she told us. “I’m not trying to offend anyone. I won’t take this further.”
Still, Algots said the reason officials have given for making a new policy — “questions raised about what is considered exposure and how it is perceived by others,” according to the statement — are misguided.
“What frustrates me is that they’re doing this policy based on the concern — and the concern was from me. They did not get a concern or complaint from someone else. The concern and the comment was from me about education of employee,” she said. “I think they are writing the policy and they don’t have any reason to do so.”
But garrison officials said the goal of any new policy is education.
“The Garrison Commander met Friday with the two ladies involved in the incident in order to gain a fuller understanding of what actually occurred,” they said in a statement provided to Military.com and SpouseBuzz. “It became clear that the Garrison needs to have a policy concerning publicly nursing mothers. Our intent is not to unduly restrict mothers, but to inform our community, which is a function of command required by the Installation Commander’s responsibilities under Title 10 to maintain good order and discipline on the installation. We want our employees and community to understand the right of nursing mothers to do so in public, and for everyone to know our expectations for the manner in which nursing occurs in public.”
They highlighted in their Facebook statements that breastfeeding in a private way is also a priority.
“We support the nursing of children in public with discretion,” their statements said. “Again, our concern is not with allowing a mother the right to breast-feed in public, it is with the questions raised about what is considered exposure and how it is perceived by others.”
About Amy Bushatz
Comments
that’s the army, one step forward, two steps back.
Using the bathroom is a natural functiona alos….but I should not turn acorner to see someone doing it in public. Same goes here. I should not have to turn a corner and see you nursing your child. Do it out of view of others, in privacy. If you are so committed to your premature baby who has to nurse on demand, maybe you should be at home to do this….let someone else rune rrands for you.
I always thought it weird how women are so proud to whip out their boobs and nurse in public…..even in restaraunts. hello! I am dining out with my husband, not wanting to have your breasts in my eye-line. We love in a modern and civilized world. The only people that this behavior is acceptable for are underdeveloped countries (jungles of South America, Africa….where they do not even wear many articles of clothing), not here in the United States. Come on women.
You must not travel much. "This type of behavior" is completely acceptable in almost every other part of the world except America. I've lived in England, Italy and Australia, and travelled to many other countries. I'd hardly call them underdeveloped countries. Anywhere but America, there is no need to "cover up" or "do it out of view of others." Breastfeeding is a normal part of life and everyone benefits when it is treated as such.
Regardless of your opinion about the acceptability of nursing in public, federal and state law say that it is legal. We all have our own individual preferences, but that does not make them the law of our country.
And seriously – "let someone else" run your errands for you? I would have paid good money to have someone else run errands for me when my children were breastfeeding. But, in reality, there were groceries to be purchased, checks to be deposited and doctors appointments to be attended. There wasn't someone else available to do these things. Either I did them, or they didn't get done. I am happy for you if you've had such help available when you had small ones, others aren't so lucky.
I'm struck by the irony of your statement. You are offended by seeing someone eating in a restaurant? Because that's what's happening – the baby is eating in public, as are you. And if you are dining out with your husband, it seems to me that you would be looking at him, not at someone else's table.
Also, "if you are so committed to your premature baby"? IF? All mothers should be committed to their babies, this is not an option. And we have to be at home to do this? We can't be committed to our children in public? Since when does motherhood equal being a hermit?
Wow, Is this a slow news day…Or What! No doubt this Story will be up for a Pullitzer?
Let me guess, Martin: You've never breastfed a child, have you? This is a huge deal for female military spouses who breastfeed their children, and it's on a website for military spouses. This is exactly the type of thing I want SpouseBUZZ to write about, because it is an issue that affects military spouses.
I hope that the legal representatives explain to Col. Whitney why it would be legally and ethically wrong to make a regulation restricting breastfeeding to certain locations or styles of nursing. If he chooses to make a regulation limiting mother's and children's rights, I hope someone challenges that regulation. In my opinion, anyone who has an issue with breastfeeding, in any location or situation, needs to do some serious introspection into why they are so shallow.
If the garrison leadership is truly concerned about maintaining good order and discipline, and "maintaining a reasonable standard that is in keeping with Army values and community expectations," perhaps they should consider some regulations regarding the selection of clothing available for adolescent girls at the AAFES store. Now that is a real problem.
In my opinion…any woman who feels it necessary to not be discreet…and fling it all out there to breastfeed, as I saw at the PX…should be evaluated by a psychiatrist for narcissistic exhibitionist tendencies.
I hope we will also be sending all the non-breastfeeding, "fling it all out there" ladies to the same psychiatrist. I consider them to be a bigger concern.
I agree with you. I really don't enjoy seeing another woman breast feed. Just because it's natural doesn't mean I want to see it. It's natural to pee, but I wouldn't want to see people doing it in the street. Common decency, that's all this is about.
Exactly. And unfortunately…common decency is out the window any more not just on post but everywhere. The same "total motherhood" crowd also helicopter parent…they also have the kid screaming at FRG meetings or post functions running all over everywhere, they have the kids spazzing out in the movie theatre or the grocery store because they have taught the child from the second it is born…the world revolves around you. No, no it doesn't. You can nurse your kids, I did both to almost two they weaned themselves at that point…and guess what GOOD mothers have been nursing for two centuries in this country..discreetly. They didn't need to bare it all in a commissary aisle or the food court. These people act like no one before them ever breast fed. We did, we just had more dignity.
Gosh, again, I've had completely opposite experiences from you. I find that the people who have kids screaming at FRG meetings or spazzing out at the movie theatre are exactly the opposite of the people who breastfeed. I'd actually like to do a study on that, it would be fascinating.
I don't know where you have gotten the mistaken idea that breastfeeding has been historically hidden. The desire to make breastfeeding a private act is a recent development in social history. I believe that was a negative change, and I'm glad people are trying to make the change back to normalizing breastfeeding.
You seriously are not comparing peeing to a woman FEEDING HER CHILD are you? So because YOU are uncomfortable with seeing a baby EAT, a mother should not have the right to do so in public? We should banish her to a specific room to do so, as to make sure your poor little insufficient brain does not get bothered? Are you saying that if a woman is in public and her child is hungry that child should go hungry because watching it eat would offend you? I do agree with you on one thing. This is about common decency., THE COMMON DECENCY TO LET A WOMAN FEED HER CHILD WITHOUT BEING JUDGED BY THE IGNORANT MASSES WHO SEEM TO THINK A CHILD WHO NEEDS TO EAT IS INDECENT!
Well yeah….don't be hangin out them feeding bags when we can have two men or woman exchanging kisses in the hallway in the commissary or BX in front of my kids……that's way more natural….Way to go ARMY BRA$$….
David – you nailed it!
Just this weekend, up here in Siberia, read: Drum…a woman came walking out of the bathroom by the foodcourt at the PX with a baby latched on, probably a 6 monthish old…no covering, no carrier…just her stomach hanging out, the entire side of her breast exposed, shirt pulled way up almost to the side of her face on one side…..no humility whatsoever…just strolled right out into the food court. Like an episode of Discovery Channel. As my husband just said "she was pretty much XXX in the foodcourt".
Look, I am all for nursing, I nursed both of my own children. But standardized rules about covering in public, or designated nursing areas are for the benefit of everyone….I'd like to see them DoD standardized.
sabrinacking, there are federal laws that make it illegal to require breastfeeding mothers to cover while feeding, and those same laws make it illegal to require people to nursing in designated areas. The arguments have already been made, and the courts have ruled. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand.?
I'm also confused about your comment/ "Like an episode of Discovery Channel." Isn't the Discovery Channel supposed to be a good thing, a teaching tool? Exposure to breastfeeding is a good thing, a teaching tool, for pretty much everyone who doesn't have inappropriate ideas about the purpose of breasts.
I think it's a case of you…had to be there. Here we were, eating lunch at the food court…and out strolled a woman with her shirt all but off. Absolutely no attempt at any modesty whatsoever. She has her arm OUT of one sleeve exposing her entire torso with no bra, he tshirt was shoved up under her neck on the one side…she was basically naked in foodcourt. I breastfed both kids…walking aground the PX food court with your gut and entire torso, plus breast hanging out ….is never required to breast feed your child. There should be some parameters. And the breastfeeding law is not about exhibitionism…of late, I see a lot of women more concerned they can be exhibitionists in public, than feed their child.
I breastfed, it never required my public nudity…is my point. Some women use breastfeeding as an excuse to be all but naked in public was my point. I could care less if someone has a baby in a carrier feeding it discreetly…but I have seen more and more outrageous displays of ludeness. The woman I referred to, was basically topless in the food court. It had nothing to do with feeding her child, and everything to do with being an attention wh-re.
Amen brother! :)
So because one person felt the need to be nearly nude to breast feed we should punish all the other women who do it the right way? What a crock of bull! I have never, NEVER, seen any woman breast feed a baby in the manner in which you describe. Nor has anyone else I know. So you are being either extremely dramatic in your description, or there just happens to be one crazy parent out there who breast feeds weird. Again, we can not punish all women for the mistake of one mother. And who knows, maybe she was wearing a weird shirt. Or maybe she was having a rough day and simply forgot to pull the bottom of her shirt down. Being a mother and shopping with kids is stressful at times so maybe her brain was fried and just didnt think to pull it down. Crap happens. Hell, the other day (after dealing with a daughter who was PMS'ing and a three year old son who decided to try and test my limits that day, on top of being sick) I was getting ready to leave for the store until I got down the hallway only to realize I had grabbed my purse and phone and had everything on except my pants. Yes, I even had my shoes on. Seriously, things happen. You need to calm down.
Standardized rules? Federal law trumps standardized rules and when the Army starts regulating dependents and Federal law….well I can't wait to see that lawsuit and federal investigation. Americans are the only people in the world who are hung up on breast feeding in public.
Sad but so true….
America has become a nation of prudes. So sad that something as natural as breastfeeding is viewed with discust! Yet violence, blood and gore are fine!
Prudish about the wrong things. It's ok to allow children and teens to wear sexual revealing clothing but not ok to feed a hungry baby?
America has always been a nation of prudes. That's what you got for Britain shipping all their religious fanatics there.
Just to be clear, I absolutely understand your issue here. It's not about the public breast feeding, or her breast being exposed. It's about the fact that she was practically completely topless. The woman you are refering to seems to have been doing it for shock value, not for the sake of feeding her child. Agreed, seriously lady, understandable about not covering your chest for the sake of feeding your child, however, do you think you could attempt to cover your gut and attempt having a little class?
You are lost if you seriously believe that every parent allows their children to watch such garbage! Just because the world offers trash, doesn't mean we all subscribe to it. That's no excuse for allowing such behavior. You can't control what people allow their children watch, wear, do, etc. There is absolutely no reason for you to be half naked from the waist up breastfeeding or doing anything else in public period! If i'm in the food court i don't want my kid to see a female's torso and breast! I don't care about them feeding their child, but your top doesn't need to be off, there's no point in doing that! It's a shame that the law has to give you step by step directions to feed your baby properly!
You missed the point. It's about health, not breasts. Gow up.
Lack of sensibility, lack of modesty, lack of decorum. The Military facilities are not the place to feed babies from the breast to be viewed by other military personnel! Knowing full well that breast feeding is a beautiful part of motherhood. As the saying goes, there's a place and time for everything. This world does not evolve around the breast feeders, even if they "may" think so!!!! Feeding te baby, come hell or ice water is not the norm ladies…..Proper planning and scheduling applies as if a bottle was involved, instead of the female "milk" glands…..
Proper planning and scheduling? Can you read? This was a preemie who had to eat on demand or face the dreaded "failure to thrive" so many babies face when people start trying to dictate a body"s natural rhythm. We wouldn't expect an adult to face painful hunger because it is not convenient.
I breastfed both kids. And yes my husband was deployed, and YES one was born 6 weeks early….guess what? Still never had to feed in an aisle in the commissary OR without any modesty covering. These women act as if no one ever breastfed before them in this country. Go ahead, say you can't be modest. Say you can't be decent…but you're just lying to yourself everyone else knows the truth.
Thank You! Breastfed my last two kids as well and i had to work! Guess what? I pumped at night or in the morning! My job even provided a room for working mothers to pump so they could drop off milk to the daycare on their lunch break, or store it in the frig until they got off work! You have to plan when you have children, it's not impossible! My husband was in Korea 3months after our third child was born. Most of these women complaining probably don't work, so you have more than enough time to plan.
Amen!
Grow up Steve. It's about health, not breasts. The Act is pretty clear, the ‘‘Consolidated Appropriations
Act, 2012’’, H. R. 2055 states:
SEC. 723. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman
may breastfeed her child at any location in a Federal building
or on Federal property, if the woman and her child are otherwise
authorized to be present at the location.
How is breast feeding like xxx? What kind of porn does your hubby watch?
You had to be there…she had her shirt damn near OFF, gut hanging out, one breast partially exposed and the other full on exposed, she had one arm completely out of her shirt….Just walking through the food court…pretty much everyone in the area was WTF?
There is nothing more normal than breasfeeing a baby… its a wonderful connection between mother and child…BUT… a certain amount of modesty should be employed… just a bit of cover up…. SO.. moms…dolnt push the issue… just a wee bit of cover up
NOT the point. It's a matter of health, not breasts. Grow up. The Act is pretty clear, the ‘‘Consolidated Appropriations
Act, 2012’’, H. R. 2055 states:
SEC. 723. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman
may breastfeed her child at any location in a Federal building
or on Federal property, if the woman and her child are otherwise
authorized to be present at the location.
Ford, who gets to define "just a wee bit of cover up." You, me, or the law? I'm pretty sure the law has spoken, and it says that the mother gets to decide. In my opinion, the baby's head is all the cover up that is necessary. If I were the mother nursing, the law says I get to make that choice.
What is wrong with people? Breast feeding is a natural function of a Mother and baby. It is not sexual it is not indecent it is not exposure it is the way babies were meant to be fed. I see absolutely nothing wrong and if this Commander in Hawaii has a problem with it I think it is time he grew up and realized the facts of life and let people live.
You are so right Gary!
Thanks for this Gary! It's extremely sad and disappointing that in the year 2013 this is still a problem. I don't think 90% of the people who comment about how much exposure there is has even seen a nursing mother before. I can discreetly breastfeed without a cover to the point where you probably couldn't even tell I was doing it unless you were up in my face! Get the heck over it people, be parents to your children and explain that's just how a baby eats, I promise they won't go screaming crying and rocking themselves in a corner somewhere scarred for life. Would you shield your children from an animal nursing in public as well?
Go Army. Keep the commissary a decent place to shop!
So breastfeeding is, therefore, "indecent"?
How ignorant.
Wait the commissary is decent? Did I miss that memo?
Thanks for making me laugh amid all my outrage :)
I agree with Sabrinacking. I have found no problem nursing my son in the designated nursing areas in public or i just bring prepumped bottle with me in case he gets fussy. I myself feel uncomfortable nursing him in the public eye and also feel uncomfortable when i see other women who use no discretion what so ever. A military establishment has different standards than a regular grocery store or public facility and it shouldn’t have been a surprise when this woman was told so.
I agree. I breastfed both kids. Never once did I find it necessary to conduct myself in the fashion I saw at the PX this weekend and have been seeing a lot of lately. The woman had her arm out of her shirt…no carrier, no cover, tshirt clear up under chin exposing her entire torso, full breast and almost 1/2 her other breast. Or perhaps what people are saying is we think we should just do away with tops all together in the PX….
So sad that you would be embarrassed to do something as wholesome and healthy as nursing your baby. Nursing in public is a good mommy skill,but does take some practice. We should be supporting moms more and their right to nurse, whenever their babe is hungry, wherever they are, period. This is about our health and our kid's health. :)
Im active duty and there are times more often than not that I have to nurse my son, now there are times that he has a bottle but the bottles dont always last so for someone to feel embarrassed or what not in public to see a child being fed is wrong. Now I understand the federal laws don't apply on a military installations but seriously if you have that big of a problem with a mother nursing her child why are you even looking in the first place, its natural it's healthy and breast aren't made for people to stare at anyways. I'm appalled about this whole thing, and I agree with a statement that was made prior for some reason regulations get set so that someone doesn't have to deal with the issue.
I breastfed at the Schofield PX numerous times…while covered. My daughter didn't like being covered either, but she still ate. I don't see why some women are so opposed to covering up. Yes, breastfeeding is natural. It's also annoying to see young, immature soldiers staring at you trying to get a glimpse of nipple. And if there is a room set aside specifically for breastfeeding, what's the problem? Because you have your toddler with you? So what? Tell him/her to be still and wait for the 15-20 minutes you're nursing. It can be done–if you want.
yes…toddler + 15-20 min = can be done…bahaha.
Leave MOM alone. She has enough to deal with. Are you jealousy of the baby.
I am a nursing, ACTIVE DUTY member. I don't agree that women should be allowed to just "whip it out" and feed their baby. I cover up because I tend to not want to expose myself to others, whether it be the immature soldier trying to catch a peek, or the child with their mother walking down the aisles. Modesty is never a bad thing. Neither is respect. I respect those that choose to nurse or bottle feed, but quit trying to martyr yourselves by pushing the issue. Use the lactation room provided. Use pre-pumped milk. Use a nersing cover – not a blanket. A nursing cover is light and breatheable and the good ones allow mother and baby to see each other.
I am a nursing sm as well. I would never nurse in public in uniform. However, when in civilian clothing, I will certainly nurse when my baby is hungry. She can't stand a cover, so I don't use one. She won't take a bottle so I can't "pre pump" (pumping is an awful experience for me). She had her baby in an Ergo. She is a civilian.
I love that comment, 'she is a civilian,' yes, yes she is!
So sad that you would be embarrassed to do something as wholesome and healthy as nursing your baby. Nursing in public is a good mommy skill,but does take some practice. "Hooter-hiders" are unneccessary. We should be supporting moms more and their right to nurse, whenever their babe is hungry, wherever they are, period. This is about our health and our kid's health. :)
Yeah and as a military spouse, I'm sure you're aware of the word "heinous"
Kim, I love how eloquently you explain it. I just get so angry that I can't think straight.
I couldn't agree more! Thank you!!
A little common decency is in order here. I know that there will be many comments about this comment, but let's face, in our modern society decency has been thrown out the window as most other things. All you breast feeding mothers should at least attempt to use a little common sense and also include decency.
Why is breastfeeding indecent? Because it involves a breast, which, as a collateral duty, can be used for sexual pleasure? If this is your logic, then we should all wear gloves and cover our mouths, as well. And let's not forget feet – many people find them sexy.
I think it's crazy that we're making a big deal out of this breastfeeding thing but I don't see anyone making a big deal out of these teenagers with your freaking boobs hanging out at the commissary and px but we don't say anything to them and we should all go to the parents about it or you don't see these people making a big deal out of teenagers walking around with your shorts at their b*** or the spouses with the shorts up the b*** but anytime a baby needs to be fed people make a big deal then because their boobs are out supposedly it whenever you nurse a child you don't just whip your boobs out so for all these people they keep saying whip your boob ou, show indecent exposure, stop looking at it like that you're strictly nursing a child again it's healthy.
I do understand that women should be allowed to breast feed their babies, but I do see the need for guidelines for doing it in public. Most will be decent & clean about it, but as I am sure you’ve all seen as I have far to many times that their are far to many women who go to the commissary looking like they are trying to shoot a nasty YouTube video like the ones you see that are called “People of Walmart”! They walk around with no care or concern for what’s hanging out of their cloths, boobs, butt cracks, large stomach rolls with 1/2 shirts, some of it is just down right nasty. I’ve seen woman who make no attempt what so ever to breast feed descretely & many that do it in a way that you can barely tell. Here on Ft Bliss what you see on post at times is just disgusting
Are the only women you see dressed like this people who are breastfeeding?
Pat, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that none of the women you're describing were nursing mothers. The behaviors you're describing seem more in line with the moms who have a purse full of smokes and empty cans of formula. Decency is one thing, but comparing the behaviors you're describing with nursing a baby is one of the reasons that our breastfeeding rates are dangerously low. Comparing it to a shameful or lewd behavior does no good at all. Please evaluate your assumptions and respect the choices of mothers who value their health and that of their children.
Excellent response, Navywife.
I wonder if the employee has ever had a child. Breast feeding is natural, it is not indecent exposurea s the child is latched onto the nipple suckling for all it's worth. They should just fall back on common sense here. Next thing they will make pet owners put up a blind and force their pets to clean themselves in private. Total lunacy here.
Warren – you're right!
I didnt think it was lunacy I thought it was just common sense, Noy everyone wants to see a woman breastfeeding in public. I get tired of always hearing its her right. well what about my right not to see it.
This has been going on I guess since the beginning of time, so why is it now such a big deal that has to be done for everyone to watch. If a guy was to stand there and watch you would probably want him arrested for watching you. get a life and think about it
Karl, I have some novel advice for you from a man with a little experience. Gunnery Sergeant at the time I left service. If you don't want so see it don't look, don't gawk, don't stare, what ever you want to call it Just don't do it.
Karl, you hit the nail on the head, you just hit in the wrong direction. Breastfeeding has been going on "since the beginning of time." Only in recent history has American society made it something that has to be hidden. That change was a mistake, and it is time to go back to treating feeding a child as a normal process.
Lets not fall into attacking and labeling others in the discussion as if others don't have rights or are less. There are many natural things that do not need to be viewed in public. There are needs of children that need to be considered, but as reasoning adults some balance can be agreed upon to solve the issue. As a father I do not want my boys exposed to those images and my wife did breast feed. I believe this can be worked out without the attacks. I would hope calm minds prevail!
Peeing is also natural, I don't think peeing in public is justified either.
comparing cars to cats here Bob. No relation in the comparison. If he don't want to see it, DON'T LOOK.
I'm sorry, but I breastfed 3 babies, I also did it with grace & dignity if I could I went to a discreet place or if not possible I would place a small blanket overy shoulder. Many times the people around me were totally unaware tht I was breastfeeding it is great that the women want to breastfeed, but there's no reason to be vulgar about it.
Certainly, she isn't being vulgar about it, if her baby is in an Ergo, a baby carrier that keeps her baby's head at her chin. I am also a servicemember and have breastfed my two children and I know there are times that when I baby needs to eat, that is all that is important to you. However, if in uniform, certainly another place should be found, but that is not the case here.
That's exactly how these mothers were nursing, with grace and dignity.
I've lived in numerous countries and only here at home have I experienced the taboos we Americans have. Only here are people offended by something that is perfectly natural and not sexual in any way. Only in America do we turn anything and everything into something offensive or sexual. So many hangups and taboos. It's sad. Just plain sad.
Amen!
Chris–Behave.
LOL – I noticed they deleted my post. No humor.
This is just another in a long line of foolish behaviors. This is not about breast feeding the baby. This is about 'I can do this because.' Plan your day and feeding times. Not 'Gee I'll go to the commissary and feed the baby at the same time. That will give me time to DO WHAT later. Give it a break. There are times and places. In public isn't one of them.
I used to drive through a very wealthy town on my way to and from work. The women in the town would not bother to look both ways when crossing the street because they were pushing baby carriages and it was the worlds place to stop so a child didn't get hurt.. As it has been said 'Don't be stupid because you can.'
"Plan your day and feeding times."
hahahahaha
Exactly, does this person have a child? Have they ever cared for another human being before?
hahaha because you can plan it! I carry several 5 ounce bottles as well as binkies and it works for me as well as many other women. Whats so wrong with being modest now days?
MMJ, this has nothing to do with modesty. There is nothing immodest about feeding a baby.
I'm glad pumping worked well for you, it doesn't work for everyone. I'm glad your child took a bottle – I imagine it gave you a lot more choices than having a baby who won't take a bottle. I'm glad a pacifier worked for you. Some parents choose not to use them, for medical reasons or personal preference. Some babies hate them. (None of my four children would tolerate a pacifier. It was so annoying.)
Perhaps you should consider that not all mothers have the options you had, or perhaps that they have the right to make different choices that you made. Just because it is your way doesn't make it right, and it sure doesn't make it the law.
To keep milk a mother has to feed on demand ezzo.info anyone?
I love it and couldnt agree more!
Then let us all ban any type of restaurant or eating in public in general! I do not want to see you chew your food or hear the sounds you make when you eat or drink so please refrain from doing this. This is the message you are sending to breast feeding mothers. Plan your day and feeding times? Sorry but that is not always possible. Somethings things come up. Sometimes your husband calls and says "Hey do you mind if I invite the new guy and his family over tonight, they are having a hard time adjusting and I want to try and make them feel welcomed" so planning your day goes out the window. OR how about "oh by the way mom, I forgot that we are having a bake sale tomorrow to help us raise money for our orchestra field trip. I told them you would make 3 dozen cookies". Times and places to breast feed???? Seriously???? Yes the times are whenever a baby needs to eat and the places are WHERE EVER THE HECK A MOTHER WANTS TO DO IT BECAUSE FEEDING HER CHILD TRUMPS ANY TYPE OF NEGATIVE FEELINGS YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT IT. For you to sit there and compare a feeding mother and stupid people is seriously wrong and speaks volumes of your mental status. A women breast feeding is not the same as a woman who has no common sense to look both ways before crossing the street. I agree, just because you have a baby does not mean the world has to stop what its doing and bow down to you. Your example of the woman crossing the road is an example of entitlement and that is wrong. But a women NEEDING and WANTING to feed her child is not an entitlement. Its not a luxury. Its not a privilege. It is her HUMAN right to do so without being made a villain.
Wow your husband called and said he was bringing some one over for supper. And then when the baby messes his or her diaper you can just put it on the table and change it. Can't interrupt the dinner. Give it a break. If I used the excuses that you women are bringing up when I was in the military or business I would have been demoted or not promoted and in business – fired. Gee I can think of more reasons. "I had a meteor crash my house and couldn't breastfeed my baby so I will do that at WalMart." If you and the others can't take the child out to car as it seems these feedings are emergencies of such immense magnitude that the child will die if not fed right now, then something is wrong with the child that I do not think breastfeeding it in public is going to cure. I guess this will also apply to the child's diaper being full. Throw it on the vegetables and change it. You won't have any other time to do this in your manic life.
If we didn't feed the child and held out for the car like you want, you'd be the first to give the stink eye for a crying baby and would be saying why won't she just feed the baby.
I'm sorry I can't just drop everything and go to the car for you when I am shopping alone with my children.
How quick you are to write what you don't know. Knowing nothing about me, maybe I am deaf or very hard of hearing you make another in a long line of asinine statements by people trying to justify breastfeeding a baby in public. I can just imagine your argument for not using the ladies room to take care of your bodily functions but the middle of the store, because you have to buy something as your husband called and said he was bringing someone home for dinner, it's the baby's fault because the baby is a preemie and may need to fed at a second notice, or something else to try and justify your actions. As so many of the women state about the counter arguments that 'you never had a preemie', 'you never had to breast feed an infant', 'you never had your husband call and say someone was coming to dinner', I can only say that most of you think that having a child justifies any action YOU think appropriate. Regardless of anyone else. Read a book on etiquette and common sense manners. Try to develop some yourself.
bahaha. Educate myself. I happen to hold a master's degree, working on my 2nd master's degree, and am a GS14. Oh, did I mention the 5 deployments and 2 unaccompanied tours for 2 years my husband served. So don't pretend you know anything about my life either.
There's a little thing called federal law. Wrap your head around it.
It seems that the quote I read a long time ago is true. "Too much education clouds the mind." It seems you learned everything but common sense and manners. You are what I have described as an example of the liberal biased education system. You think, therefor you are right.
There is more to be learned in life than sitting in a classroom parroting back what the professor believes or structuring a Master's thesis that fits that professor's bias in order for the thesis to be accepted.
You have a lot of time for education. Do you breastfeed in class?
Clearly you don't have children, or have never breastfed, especially a preemie!! You don't get to "plan your day and feeding times"
Last time I checked, a military wife, with two kids, one an infant, the other a toddler, husband probably deployed or very least working, cart full of perisable goods, doesn't have the luxery of dropping what she's doing and going to a "nursing room", nor does she have the ability to just tell the infant to wait. You people either condemn for the baby screaming or you condemn for something else. The military creates regulations so they don't have to deal with issues; they can simply refere to AR-900-xxx and tell you that you are in violation. Yes descrection is the better part of valor and for the most part, not too many wives really want to flip their boobs out for you to see. So lay off already. The only ones who make this a federal case are the perverted idiots who feel uncomfortable and want to stare. If there were no comp[laints from customers, then the employee was inthe wrong if there were no regulations being violated.
Retired 1SG
The only ones who want to make this a federal case are the mothers who, either through entitlement or laziness, only want to think of their own convenience. As a nursing mother, I can tell you that we CAN put our babies on reasonably predicatable feeding schedules and take along a bottle of stored breastmilk for when outings take longer than we expect. We can take a toddler into a nursing room. It's a matter of how much effort the parent wants to make to start with…
Get a little more educated on the possible threats of these feeding schedules you talk about. Feeding schedules are known to contribute to “failure to thrive.” Pump a bottle?! You’re kidding me right?! This is only for a convenience to perverse minds. You should be ashamed of the suggestions you make & lack of support as a former breastfeeding mom!
As an educated nursing mother that you try to portray, you should know that pump output and what a baby can obtain from nursing are two entirely different amounts. There are numerous nursing moms, that can not effectively pump. Also the AAP and WHO recommends feeding on demand rather than a schedule. Maybe you should educate yourself on current recommendations. And yes my toddler can go into a dressing room but will become bored after a couple of min and be more of a distraction and cause more of a ruckus. If only we could all be such perfect judgmental mothers as you. Oo
Let's see…I gave birth to both of my kids with my husband deployed. The eldest was 10 months before he saw him, and the youngest he saw for two weeks during an 18 month hardship tour to Korea….(extension when 9/11 happened)..,,never, not once…in all of that time…did I need to breastfeed in an aisle in the commissary…..
I have never sat on my … While nursing I lived 3000 miles from any relatives and my husband was an E3-E4….so, uh no nanny around. Have you ever heard of a sling? News flash…you can, in fact, clean your house, get dressed and even pulically nurse discretely while raising children. I just never made ludicrous excuses for myself. Has anyone bothered to read the USAG Hawaii FB page? Several women gave very good descriptions of what they saw and complained to the commissary about. She had her full breast pulled out and down over her tank top. Her infant was for the most part not eating, and she was just strolling down the isle with her bare breast exposed militantly.
I did read each and every comment at the USAG Hawaii FB page, and I didn't get the same message that you did. I got the message that uneducated zealots were overreacting. The cover photo in this article is, in fact, the same photo being discussed on the USAG Hawaii FB page. If you see indecent in this photo, then that is your choice. In my opinion, breastfeeding a child is much more decent that allowing adolescents to dress like streetwalkers or having to listen to a bunch of attention-seeking young adults acting like fools in public. Last time I checked, USAG hasn't made regulations prohibiting either of those behaviors. Why target breastfeeding?
You read each response to both posts? Read the first post with 500 odd responses when I was there. Three separate women give very good descriptions of what happened…as does Bella here…who also witnessed the event.
I did. And it sounded to me like a lot of exaggeration and overreacting. Since neither of us were there, we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether the mother was behaving militantly and whether the baby was actually eating. (I can't even believe someone used the word militantly to describe a person feeding their child.)
It's not relevant, however, because it is legal to breastfeed in public. Perhaps if we would stop stigmatizing it, we'd have more mother who plan to breastfeed who are actually able to successfully do so.
The picture at the top of this post is the same picture on the USAG Hawaii Facebook page. I'm a lot more likely to believe this picture than the reports of a person who has a preconcieved notion of what is right and wrong.
It is legal to breastfeed in public…it's not legal to waltz into the food court all but topless or down the commissary aisle…and yes it is all about making a political statement and not at all about her parenting.
If she is feeding her child and breast is exposed then it IS legal even if the baby is not feeding fast enough or consistently enough (preemie child) for the rest of the world.
Too many new moms give up nursing because of this kind of embarrassment, accepting a lower level of health for them and thier kids with artificial feeding (formula). :( This is about health, not breasts. :)
Thank you so much for your support. These ridiculous prudes need to get over it, be good parents, and look the heck away if they have such a problem. As a breastfeeding mom of 3, I would never worry myself with trying to figure out a schedule, and I certainly nurse anywhere I wish without a cover, and guess what you couldn't even notice it.
I think this is ridiculous. If she was wearing an Ergo than there wasn't much to see. Not all babies are on schedules (especially preemies, because I've had 2 preemies). Not all babies take bottles-especially exclusively breastfed ones. I agree with Jenny that there is an enormous hangup with many things in America, and we all just need to grow up and get over it.
What a bunch of morons we have here. Yes, breastfeeding is natural, but so is sex, and we don't do that in public. If federal Law says it OK to expose your breasts because you're feeding a baby, then it should be changed. Urinating is natural, too, but we don't do that in public, either.
Oh my gosh. Your ignorance is showing, you may want to tuck it back in…
Comparing breastfeeding to urinating or sex is ridiculous. You could compare it to an adult eating however. If eating in public is obscene, we need to take another look at why we have restaurants.
then next time you are in public, go and eat in the public toilet.
Grow up esther. This is about health, not breasts.
Last I checked you don't use your genitals to feed a child like you use your genitals to have sex or use the bathroom. Please don't compare the two until you either eat a plate of poop with a glass of urine or you feed a child with your genitals:) not even close to the same thing.
Regardless of the need or preference of the mother to breastfeed, it is indecent exposure. Anyway you view it, the breast and more specifically, nipple is exposed. Most often it's a personal choice though the people that make the biggest deal about it have a reason outside of personal choice like the situation here. Do you want your children seeing a bunch of breasts at every turn? Individual families make to choice of whether they'd like to breastfeed or not. The United States is made up of various cultures. People should have a choice of whether they're okay being exposed to that.
Only in America (USA) can a woman breast feeding an infant be classified as an exhibitionist and it generally it's by someone with an attitude similar to yours. Sounds like hubby's XXX comment might have set you off as well but then again your hubby must be a lay-leader or member of the clergy for a naked breast to be XXX. hahaha. I find your indignation pitiful.
I keep asking this because I seek different opinions from different commenters. How is breastfeeding indecent? If "people should have a choice of whether they are okay being exposed to "a mother feeding her child, then shouldn't people also have a choice not to look at other things that might offend them? I, myself, really dislike tattoos. Perhaps we should make everyone cover them up so I am not offended. This is the logical extension of your argument.
I don't think breast feeding is indecent, and I have never once seen anyone complain about someone discreetly breastfeeding. I think the issue is people are pushing social norms beyond societal agreement. I breastfed, never had to be topless in public to do so…but I have seen this numerous times here…maybe it's a Drum thing….I am talking arms out of shirt, shirt hanging around your neck at Aldiss (grocery store), shirt completely off at Thompson Park…public park here, and one arm out shirt hiked up so entire torso is exposed as well as entire breast…I have seen that numerous times now. It's lude, and has nothing to do with feeding a child, it's a political statement at best, exhibitionism at worst and ALL about the mother, not the child. Also…breast milk is a bodily fluid, I'd rather people not bleed or ejaculate at the food court too…
"it is indecent exposure"
Not according to the law.
An Ergo is a baby carrier that keeps a baby's head just below or at the mother's chin. This baby, if in the Ergo, was facing the mother, and the material around the Ergo was certainly covering her enough not to allow her nipple to show. Children "seeing a bunch of breasts" is not what this mother was exposing anyone to. She was feeding a premature baby. I suggest you educate yourself about breastfeeding, its benefits, as well as the situation. "People should have a choice of whether they're okay being exposed to that." — a mother feeding her child? Oh the HORROR.
"bunch of breasts" lol
Not indecent exposure when involved in nursing. Grow up , it is about health not breasts.
How is breast feeding "indecent"?
And as for my children, no, I would not care if my kids were exposed to a billion women breast feeding. That is how children learn to be tolerant and excepting of people, unlike yourself.
YZP, great job teaching your children the intended use of breasts!
Wouldn't that be nice? I want to shake people when I see babies crammed in carries, with a bottle propped up with a blanket. Hello! You can feed with a bottle or with a breast, but do it with some caring, love and safety-mindedness.
I'm fine w/ my kids (both boys) seeing women nursing. There are scantily clad women all over the place and I'd much rather have my kids see breasts being used as nourishment. People do have the right to decide what they're exposed to; if they don't want to see breastfeeding they can stay home.
The reason it passed at the federal level was due to the overwhelming support of the American Pediatric Association. Doctors know how important breast-feeding is, and also how difficult it can be for some mothers/children. My wife and I have an underweight baby because his appetite has not developed with his age. He also won’t take a bottle and covering will occasionally cause him to stop eating. As a father I will tell you I don’t care what the regulation is. We try to go to private or secluded areas, but when my son wants/needs to eat he is going to have the opportunity to eat until he is at a healthy weight. All of those solutions that have been mentioned previously are great for those kids, but they don’t work for mine. Our doctors, my wife, and I all know what works: breast feeding.
Nick, thank you for supporting your wife as she does what is best for your child. You sound like a great person.
And you can breastfeed in the women's restroom and be modest about it. I've done it, its not hard!
If you're willing to feed your child in a germ-ridden bathroom that is your choice, I won't
Do you eat in a public bathroom? I don't. And I certainly wouldn't force that on my baby.
MMJ, you're right, it's not hard. But it is unnecessary, and it is gross. Perhaps you would like to eat your lunch in the toilet as well?
MMJ when you eat in a bathroom, I will join you. Did you know that fecal particles are flown up to 20 ft by public toilets. MMKay.
But,…. yet if two gay/lesbian soldiers in uniform were holding hands or kissing,,in the commissary they would not say anything! The military is down right a bunch of idiots!!
This is an issue that I'll never understand! How has someone — the offended — been so influenced that something as natural as breast feeding is somehow construed as sexual/dirty, to be hidden from the eyes?! Who's the person that sees this activity and is instantly offended?! What a colossal waste of time to be running around screaming with arms overhead when an infant is being nourished, that's nuts folks!!!
This is just a joke right. Only a total moron would tell a mother to quit nursing her baby.
Never, I mean never pull this crap with a nursing mother! Like they don’t have enough going on post birth. Now they have to worry about over sensitive A holes turning baby feeding time into “o my gosh I can see…. well nothing really, but my mind is filling in the gaps.” Really? REALLY?
Seriously!
Breastfeeding your baby should be as natural as walking, it's normal. There was a time when breastfeeding a baby in public was not a problem….anywhere. When I was a kid, mothers use to do it in Church, now, it has been "demonized" to the point of tabu, all because some butthole wanted to make an extra buck. I remember when it changed, first they said, breastfeeding your baby was bad for the baby because the mother could pass on her germs(not true). Then they said, formula was better for the baby than the mothers milk(also not true), in fact thats an out right lie and they know it, but they don't want the mothers to know it. This policy is about money, it has nothing to be with indecency, and it sure as heck not XXX, as one poster put it. Covering up while you breastfeed your baby should be allowed, my wife did it when my daughter was a baby, on post. Ft. Hood. She is a grown woman now, and a mother herself, and she breastfeed her daughter as well
More rules are required because common sense is no longer part of our world.
Is there a nursing room in the commissary? Why are people offended by a nursing mother? Yikes, what next!!!
Yes, there is a nursing room. And she was actually asked to use it or cover, but she refused. She left out that part of the story.
No, it wasn't "left out." It was irrelevant. There is no reason that a person should be relegated to a certain room (more likely a converted closet) to feed their child. Alternately, we could build a bunch of little cell-like cubicles in the food court, so we could avoid seeing anyone eat.
She was not asked to cover.
Will everyone stop!! These women just need to cover up a bit and be a bit more courteous to others, I don't want to see someone feeding her kid nor see them change a diaper in public!! What about my rights!! Everyone thinks that they are soooo important but it's the rights of the MAJOIRITY that makes the laws! You can't please everyone but common sense is there. You want to flash your breasts in public then get a dance pole!!
The laws have already been made. Federal and state laws state that breastfeeding is permitted in any location and may be done in any way desired by the mother.
Oh, so your "rights" supersede a babies need to eat? Nice.
As stated multiple times, some babies won't eat covered and won't take bottles. You have the right to look away, leave, or get over yourself. A parent making a child go hungry for the comfort of a stranger is a bad parent.
John D- I don't want to see you eat in public either. Nor do my children. Please, put a blanket over your head next time.
A woman breast feeding her child is not FLASHING HER BREAST and it shows the type of mind set you have to even make the comparison. How should a woman "cover up a bit" in order to make YOU more comfortable with her FEEDING her child. (both of which are human rights, not God given rights, or Government sanctioned rights, but NATURAL HUMAN RIGHTS. Rights that every person are born with) I have known many mothers who would have loved to have been able to put a blanket over their childs head while they feed but there are a lot of children who do not like to be covered while feeding. The only reason any of these other mothers wished they could have covered their children is because of people like you who find it offensive and feel the need to express their feelings about it to the mother, who is doing nothing wrong.
Is it ok for a baby to eat from a bottle in public? If your answers yes, then you need to stop and realize that you said it's ok for some babies to eat but not others because it makes YOU uncomfortable.
and before someone says pump, I can't and I know many other mom's can't as well. Just doesn't work.
You'd think by the reaction of some readers here, the nursing mothers were naked from the waist-up with a twin attached to each breast, spinning them like tassels in a Burlesque show!!!
Why not just see the activity and simply carry-on with the chores of the day, go home and relax!!! Shouldn't life be wonderful?…
BobSacamano, I just want to tell you that every time I read this comment, I think "uch!" and I then think, "Oooh, I'd like to see that!" I appreciate the laugh.
Exactly. We live in a society. Not some hidden tribe…a civil society. In order to participate in that society, it is not "obtuse" to ask for some universal conformity. This issue is a no brainer. I never once in breastfeeding two kids had to be next to topless in public, which is what I saw this weekend at the PX and am seeing increasingly more and more on and off post. It has nothing to do with breastfeeding, and everything to do with a mother who has antisocial tendencies. You don't want to belong to the majority society…fine. Go live on a commune somewhere.
I can only presume…people are more mature and less obstinate in their breastfeeding practices where you are. Here, the new norm seems to be topless=ok. I don't want to see anyone topless male or female at the food court…I think the woman this article is about appears to have been discreet..my personal complaint is the new norming of topless women in public to breastfeed, a little modesty goes a long way.
Sabrina- You keep bringing up this issue of a woman who seems like a real hot mess. But that's not what this article is about- the woman in question was wearing her baby in an Ergo (similar to a sling) and trying to go about her day and survive as a mother of a toddler and preemie (bless her!). If she refused to go into a nursing room- good for her! Why should she add 30 minutes to her day when she could get on with her life and get back home where she probably wanted to be anyway? Granted– that is just my assumption: the the commissary is the LAST place any sane, newly postpartum mother would enjoy spending time. Again– that's just me. Personally I have never seen a topless or near topless woman in a food court nursing. Are they really that rampant where you are?
Being a new mom is hard. Being an old mom is hard. Can't we all just remember that and give each other the benefit of the doubt, support each other, and be thankful that there are mothers out there doing the hard work of raising the next generation to be healthy, functional people? Or at the very least just mind out own business?
Unfortunately…I see it every time we go out here. And the woman in question is actually being challenged on her story, and the changing of her story both by the post command and women who witnessed it originally. It seems to be a new norm amongst 20 somethings that they need to be fully exposed to nurse, which is just ludicrous. I personally think all of you coming to her defense don't understand what is being said. You can nurse in public and be decent about it. In fact, I nursed all over in public and shocker…no one ever said a word…you know why? I didn't make a spectacle of myself. If she can't feed her baby without doing so…then she should retreat to a nursing rm or her home until she learns how to breastfeed in public.
Psst… I'm 20 and nurse my son and my top is never almost completely off. Oh and neither are my 20 year old friends who have children as well. Way to stereotype a group based on age. I am discreet ( I wear a tank top under my shirt and pull my shirt up and tank top down just enough for my son to latch) when I feed and I have had NUMEROUS people come up to me and tell me I need to stop, go to the bathroom, or leave, or I have people tell me I'm disgusting and my child is going to grow up to be some sex freak. Plus who's to decide what discreet is? Personally if I didn't have so many effing people attack me for feeding my son, I'd just pull my breast over the top of my shirt and feed him that way because it's so much easier and it doesn't show anymore then what my shirt is showing to begin with but someone else out there doesn't think that that's modest. See what I'm saying? Just let the baby eat in peace and stop harassing mom's for doing what's best for their children.
Seriously, if anyone has a problem with women not covering with nursing..
Close your eyes? Turn away? Stop staring like a creep? Just a few options.
Grow up.
Why should everyone else walk away? She should use a nursing room or a cover. This topic always comes up and its always women who just want to stir up something. They should put it on a ballot to see what the majority votes. I totally agree with breastfeeding but don't want to see it in public or also my children seeing it.
If you say "I support breastfeeding BUT…." then you don't support breastfeeding. Period. All of you saying to cover up…. my child would NEVER feed with anything over his head. Ever. This woman nursing in her Ergo was doing so with dignity. Good for her!
I am really surprised that so many people think that mothers "want to flash" their breasts. In my experience, nursing four children, it was never my desire to offend someone. However, your definition and my definition of "flash" may be very different. It was also my experience that "covering up" did nothing but draw more attention to the fact that I was nursing. Nothing like using a nursing cover to shout out, "hey, everyone, look over here. I'm feeding my child." With my child covering most of my breast, there was very little left to see even if I was "hanging it all out." In addition, I am surprised that people think that mothers really prefer to nurse while doing other things, such as shopping. In fact, most mothers would prefer to be somewhere comfortable where they could enjoy their child, but that is not always realistic. It is even less realistic in a military community where you may not have friends or family nearby, and your spouse may not be available to help.
This is an outrage. While I don't think a mother in uniform should be publicly breastfeeding in a commissary, any civilian mother should be able (even saying "allowed" would be atrocious) to feed her baby as s/he needs. Breastfeeding is so difficult and the fact that she is condemned for giving her baby the best is unbelievable. I hope that she and others fight this ridiculous notion of "new installation rules".
I am assuming that all the people saying keep the breast feeding at home. Have never ate at at a public restaurant or feed a bottle to a baby in public. Which in my opinion vastly more lazy and obscene method of parenting method then breast feeding.
Couldn't agree more. I'm offended by the fact that all of the food choices on our base are very low quality fast food. I'm offended when I see toddlers drinking mystery colored drinks (juice, soda, energy drinks?) from bottles. Can we have a rule to address these obscenities?
Some babies will NOT eat covered. Mine screams bloody murder if covered and absolutely refuses bottles. I may try to find a quiet corner to nurse, or face a wall. I always wear undershirts so all that's visible is the part necessary for feeding and the baby usually immediately covers that, but it's not anyone's call how, when, or where I feed my children.
For everybody saying "get a room!", fine: Just apply it to everyone. Your formula fed kid wants a bottle? Nursing room. Your toddler wants those pretzels in your purse you brought for him to snack on? Nursing room. Formula smells gross, and your toddler chews with his mouth open. Why should I have to see that when I'm shopping?
Got frozens in your cart, spent all morning at the peds clinic trying to get *anyone* to see your sick toddler, and you need to pick your older one up from school? Too bad, so sad. Should have planned your day better I guess.
(Note for the perpetually clueless, which is quite a few of you based on these comments: This is called "sarcasm")
LOL, I love this. Rock on. :-)
You folks need to get a grip. This isn't a floor show. Its just feeding the baby. If you can't handle it turn you dainty head. Has been happening for a few years now folks. Not like out in town in the GOGO joint, just Mom and the baby. You don't do it, Bravo for you, zip your lip and move on, nothin to see here. The Policy question for " good order" ? Is anyone expecting this to cause a riot? Not the business of the px employees or the other customers. Mom didn't come down there for your review. And you who have better time budgeting suggestions for her life try just living your own. Some thing are IMPORTANT. This shouldnt be a big deal AT ALL.
I’m appalled at this article and the comments. I hate how they respond in “how it may be perceived”. You can do anything and someone can take it te wrong way, doesn’t mean it should be deemed wrong.
Breastfeeding is natural and is an act of nourishing a child. PERIOD. If you perceive this in any other way, than you need to be checked!
Under any circumstance, it should be praised she is nursig in public.
Why should she cover up? Do you all not know that babies hate being covered up and a baby fussing along with a mother struggling to keep the cover in place actually draws more attention and makes a breastfeeding session that should be 5 mins long turn in to a dreaded wrestling match.
If a child needs to eat then so be it. She shouldn’t feel compelled to go in to a secreted room and making her shopping trip longer then it has to. Whip it and feed the child and that’s it.
Breast have another purpose other than sexual pleasure!!
Now as I approach 70 I find this whole conversation rather silly.
My daughter is going on 38 years old.
She was breast fed in the 70s in some of the best restaurants in the USA, on commercial aircraft, at the major multi-national corporation (including business meetings) we both worked for and …….
….. no one gave it a second thought or glance rather families and particularly kids where nearly required to attend sales meetings at some rather posh resorts.
We appear to have moved into a period of secular puritanism that really is a crock of BS.
Are there no adults out there? Have we walked back into the dark ages.
Thanks, Hawk, for a much needed does of common sense.
Thank you, Hawk, for educating people that the taboo is new. From the comments I've seen, it seems like many people truly believe that no person has ever nursed in public before, and that today's mothers are trying to break some traditional rules of polite society.
I'm pretty sure Miss Manners would say that traditional rules of polite society specifically forbid making a fuss. But I guess some people need to find something to be offended about, and nursing mothers are a convenient target.
All of this ruckus in a state where half the population wear little next to nothing on the beaches and while walking downtown. Bathing suits are expected on the beach – breastfeeding is expected with a baby. Perception, people. A wise word to those VERY few mothers who seem to lack common sense, but let's not criminalize all. This needs to be repeated. Thank you, Cheryl Papciak-Brooks
The Act is pretty clear, the ‘‘Consolidated Appropriations
Act, 2012’’, H. R. 2055 states:
SEC. 723. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman may breastfeed her child at any location in a Federal building or on Federal property, if the woman and her child are otherwise authorized to be present at the location.
Saying immodesty is okay when compared to other immodesty does not make it modest. Just sayin'.
The problem with the garrison commanders statement is that he is using his personal opinion of what is considered "discrete" and implying that by virtue of nursing a baby, that there is something indiscreet or shameful taking place. That is a problem the US has with nursing moms, and until those who are in the position to effect positive change do so,and support the most natural and beneficial form of feeding a child (on no one else's terms and with no qualifiers or modifications), then that change will never happen.
If anyone looks at a mother nursing a child and sees something sexual, then that makes them a pedophile and they really need to seek professional help.
Thank you. That is my issue exactly with the statements by Garrison.
What this article leaves out is the ever changing story by this and the other woman. They were asked to use the nursing room or cover and they both refused. At least that was the first story they told on Facebook. A picture of the other woman, which she posted on a FB group, would probably have been too revealing for this forum. She was wearing a tank top and her breast was pulled out over it. The only part of her breast not visible was her nipple because of the baby; everything else exposed. Do women walk around with pasties? Because that is what it equated to.
In all my years of breastfeeding out in public no one ever approached me to complain. That is because I was discreet. And covering does not mean throwing a comforter over the baby! Something as small as a burping cloth that can cover the top of the breast area would suffice.
These women were looking for attention, just like this one as she says they are making policy due to her. It is all me me me! They were looking for their 15 seconds of fame. They wanted to make a statement.
AMEN! This is my exact point.
Whatever happened to using a sling…I realize with kids at 17 and 12 I am a relic here…but I breastfed both and they pretty much lived in slings until they were crawling…you can't see anything in a sling..I am NOT antibreastfeeding in public…I am Anti exposing ones self ostentatiously to breastfeed in public. We live in a society, to which even a baby must learn to conform to participate. Just get a sling people.
She was wearing the baby in a carrier that is much like a sling.
Slings have actually been seen to cause suffocation in smaller babies.
Slings have been used by many cultures for thousands of years…clearly if a child suffocated in one it was user error.
Bella the two ladies that this happened to, did not originally post this issue, it was a fellow nursing mom that was deeply concerned over this issue. So no they weren't looking for this. the other pic you are referring to was taken herself so the angle was different due to holding her arm out to get the shot. The picture featured in the article is how one would look nursing in an Ergo. They were not asked to cover, you are mistaken. They were asked to relocate or leave which is against federal law, period.
If it is not offensive to feed a baby with a bottle in public, or for you or your child to be seen eating in public – and it is not! – then it is not offensive to breastfeed in public. End of story. Quit harassing moms just trying to do the best thing for their babies and get everything else done they need to do too. Feeding a baby is nothing like showing skin to arouse sexual interest, and anyone who perceives it that way is the problem who should be dealt with by any policy changes.
I couldn't find the comment that was sent to my email about someone saying they fed their kids in a bathroom. I feel sorry for any child forced to eat in such a filthy place. If there is a clean, well-maintained nursing room it is advisable to use it, yes. Covering as much of the breast as possible without covering the baby is polite, and wearing an undershirt to avoid showing as much skin as the Jersey shore girls would be nice, but nobody has the right to tell an infant they can't eat when they're hungry and a bathroom is a disgusting place to eat so unless you're willing to eat YOUR meals there don't tell me to take my child in there.
Oh no!!!!!!!!!! Someone saw a bit of side boob while a woman was feeding her baby!!! Call the MP's!!!! Thats pornography!!!!
Anyone who agrees that women need to cover up or hide while breastfeeding needs to get a grip. I did not breastfeed my children but I applaud those who do and just because the site of half a covered boob offends you does not mean we should force these women to feel shameful for doing what has been natural to do since, oh I don't know, THE BEGINNING OF TIME!!!!! If you think its disgusting and wrong than maybe you need to take a look at yourself and examine what disgusting thoughts go on in your head to turn such a beautiful thing into something so wrong.
Women, if you have an issue with women breastfeeing in public or not covering their babies while they do so A) you probably do not have kids or B) you need to get your head checked because clearly you have mental problems. That is why we have boobs! There are so many things in this world today that try to bring females down, don't be another hindrance! Embrace these ladies and let them know there is nothing to be ashamed of!
Men, if you have an issue with breastfeeding in public, who cares? You are a man. You are either
A) Jealous that you can not breastfeed and provide natural life nutrients to your children.
B) Have no respect for women and their feelings or needs
C) Are just a pervert and YOU don't want to be ashamed of yourself for taking something as natural as breastfeeding and turning it into a dirty thought in your own mind, so you have to place the blame on the women and try to take her NATURAL HUMAN RIGHTS AWAY because of your own faults!
or D) your just a jerk.
I'm on the other side of you on this debate, but A and D made me laugh! :)
Ladies, you would be well advised to cover up around the perverts in the military. Have you not been following the sexual assult cases and inappropriate actions of high ranking officers in the news lately ? The Army has a lot more than breastfeeding to worry about (suicide, rape).
There's breast feeding and then there's gross breast feeding. You want to breast feed your baby, get out
of the military installations, don't try to impose civil laws into out military installations. The majority of women feed their babies in public just to get attention without feelings for those women who can't have
babies. If you're going to feed your babies, please, please don't publicize it, have some decency "if you have any." DON'T BE A SHOW OFF!!!!!!!
I'm sorry for whatever has happened in your life to make you feel this way.
How confused are you, if you think that people feeding their babies are trying to get attention? That's really sad thinking.
Umm there's this little pesky thing called federal law.
The last thing on a nursing moms mind is showing off.
Please take the time and educate yourself. You obviously are not educated.
You know it's really nice to live in Europe where there is no need at all for breastfeeding laws because it is considered NORMAL for a woman to breastfeed and no one here thinks it's gross and disgusting. I'm so proud that the Grafenwoehr Army Garrison Provost Marshall vowed to stand by the federal law protecting women's rights to breastfeed their babies and will enforce it whenever needed. THAT is how rights are protected. I think you've all forgotten what your soldiers are fighting for. Get the heck over it people, use your neck muscles and look away if it bothers you that much! Also, remember to not go to the beach at all because you will see more skin in one day than you'll see in your entire lifetime from a breastfeeding mother. Any of you against the rights of a baby should be ashamed of yourselves.
I guess the question comes down to whether you can just legislate away what you might personally consider to be bad taste. Last I checked, commissaries are pretty much the epicenters of bad taste. Kind of ironic that one of the readers said that commissaries have "different standards" than public grocery stores. Boy, ain't that the truth, but not in the way she meant. A breastfeeding mom pales in comparison to some of the trash you see on a daily basis. My children have seen my breasts plenty of times. What I don't want them seeing is the butt cracks, the hooker clothes on women young and old, the dirty, unkempt commissary patrons, the couples tonguing each other in the aisles, etc. But that's life; I just hustle them through as fast as possible and tell them, if they ask, "We don't behave that way." The store employee who said that military bases "don't have to follow federal rules" is a gem, too. Of COURSE we follow federal rules; how does he think he got, and keeps, his job? How about true leadership rather than slapping down another cover-your-@** rule: How about, if it bothers you, offering (nicely) to the mom in question to watch her toddler, and her cart, for awhile so she can take care of business (wherever and however she needs to do that). And if she's comfortable juggling all that on her own, then so be it, finish your own shopping and be on your way. She might be embarrassed by an offer of help because she's trying to be invisible and get her business done, but she might be grateful for someone to actually give a crap and lend a hand. I personally wouldn't want to juggle a toddler and nurse a preemie and get the grocery shopping done all at the same time, but you do what you have to. I seriously doubt she's doing it because it's such a fun time and frees her up for "leisure" time. Full disclosure here: active-duty naval officer, mom of 3, and breastfeeding (privately).
I thought we were past this kind of crap, there is nothing wrong wit breast feeding a child, I have never seen a woman out in public breast feeding that just flopped a breast out for everyone to see. It's the most natural thing in the world. I wonder how many that complain were breast fed by their Moms?
I'm a woman, frankly the lack of discretion by some of these women is DISGUSTING. I've seen just what this woman did and I wanted to say something to the lady….I'm looking at food, I do not want to see your boobs hanging out with a kid latched onto them while your other one is running around willy nilly. I'm willing to bet If I walked into the commissary topless, I'd get kicked out, and probably arrested why didn't this woman use a pump and bring a bottle if her kid needs to eat all the time.
Not all moms can pump. Not all moms can afford a pump. Not all babies will take a bottle. Educate your bad self.
military pays well enough to afford a pump, if you can't afford a pump you probably can't afford the kid you popped out either and are leaving it to the rest of us to provide you with subsidies for your personal choice. Another novel idea how about utilizing DAYCARE while you go food shopping, or go on the weekend if your spouse is home to watch the child. There are a million different options that DON'T involve someone popping a boob out the top of their shirt and latching said child on them
If you don't think you should "have" to see something as natural as a woman feeding her child while out in public, you should probably just stay home. Especially don't go to the commissary, where mothers who are basically single parents are shopping while their husbands are deployed or working. While they are shopping, they have to bring their children including newborns who need to nurse on demand like this one who was ordered to do so by their doctor. If you can't handle that then just do us all a favor and keep your ignorant and judgmental ass at home and order your groceries online. I personally don't like seeing this list of people at the commissary at all but I deal with it because saving the money is worth it to me. The list is as follows: obese people, scantily clad people, wives who wear their husbands rank, officers with an ego, officer wives who are stuck up snobs, enlisted wives who are dirty and trashy, old people who wont MOVE out of the way, and annoying bratty kids with unattentive parents who are on their smart phones and bump you with their carts. A breastfeeding mother is not bothersome in the least compared to those people.
lady, I am a mother, I dislike all of the above on your list as well, add in a breastfeeding mother to the list and it's just the icing on the cake (because said mother is probably also blocking an aisle or expecting people to go around her or bumping people out of the way as well). I want to look at carrots, not boobs. As you've pointed out…there is enough ridiculousness in the commissary without a need to add to it (and here you are just as much of a "judgy ass' as you say I am ;-). And trust me, if I COULD order my food online, I totally would. Sadly, I cannot as none of the grocery stores deliver and I maintain a mainly vegetarian diet so when the farmers markets aren't in season I am stuck at the commissary which I avoid like the PLAGUE on pay day weekends. One more to add to your list…kids that empty out the freezer shelves onto the floor and the parents that don't say a word to them about it.
I don't think just because you have milk coming out of your breast gives you the right to walk around with it out for the world to see. I am a woman; I don't want to see another woman's breast. Sorry!
so I"m guessing you don't go to the pool, the beach, VS??? Do you go out in public at all? I'm assuming you just sit at home all day because you see more cleavage and breasts in public than by a nursing mom.
Going to the pool, beach and Victoria Secret is a choice. Getting groceries is a necessity. Please don't say, "Well if you don't like seeing breastfeeding, stay home!" I am not saying these women need to stay home, just show some descretion. My two cents. :)
Your opinion of discretion and my opinion of discretion could be completely different, so who gets to say what's decent and what's not? Just my two cents:)
I think you may not understand the definition of the word discreet. It means to attempt not to bring embarrassment or upset to another. It has nothing to do with the individual…and everything to do with the community. And that is the crux of most of the conversation. Some women think that their need to immodestly and indiscreetly feed their babies supersedes any agreement to society. Others, including myself disagree.
If you have never seen what many people consider lude breastfeeding, good for you. But it certainly occurs, more and more frequently. And the argument that babies can't be fed more discreetly is just plain ludicrous. If someone is complaining about you breastfeeding in public…you're doing it wrong. I breastfed two kids in public and never, not once had anyone complain. THAT is using discretion.
The last thing on my mind or agenda as a fellow nursing mom who has nursed exactly like Tamara at the Schofield PX and commissary is let's see how much breast I can show. I would expect that all those that commented that they have a problem with breastfeeding in public and that mothers should use covers, blankets, secluded places, I'm assuming are doing a petition to remove all magazines from these locations, do not go to pools or beaches, go to the mall, or turn on the TV as more skin is shown in those situations than from a nursing mother. This is an issue as nursing moms have been asked to leave places all over this country and have been harrassed, humiliated, etc. even though against federal law to do so. There are many reasons why some nursing moms don't use secluded locations, covers, pump, etc. unless you are mom that can't do these things you wouldn't understand and more importantly the law says they don't have to. It all comes back to the oversexualized attitude that is rampant in the US. The AAP and WHO recommend breastfeeding until 2. In a country with one of the lowest breastfeeding rates we need to support all nursing mothers not throw them under the bus. There is not a wrong way to breastfeed.
I can't believe all the whining, just let standards go, your beliefs out weigh mine, glad to give you the freedom to infringe on others, thats why I serve. Thanks Jerk Liberals!!!!
I find nursing in an Ergo style carrier to be more discrete than a nursing cover. At least it doesn't scream, "look at me nurse my baby everyone!" I'm pretty sure the mom wanted to keep just as covered as she could, but also needed to take care of her baby as soon as she could. I've been there… a hungry, crying baby in the commissary is no fun.
As a current military wife and a mother who breast fed 2 babies for combined almost 4yrs, I see can see the controversy here. I have fed both my babies in all sorts of places, cars, restaurants, ladies sitting rooms, airports & airplanes and even pubic swimming pools both in the US and Germany. I sometimes covered with a light blanket sometimes not. If done right nobody even notices whats going on unless the are directly in front of you looking right down your cleavage. Now for being in the commissary I would feel awkward there are so many single boys/men around, but if she was using a baby sling/wrap nobody should have even noticed, and I saw no mention of her whippin her boob out or her being very discreet. There are allot of very strict rules for being on base, what you can do and not do for enlisted and spouses alike, breast feeding should be allowed anywhere and people should be respectful and not stare mothers should be respectful and not whip it out but should show as little as possible with the need to cover unless she so desires. Americans are prudes. We have been socialized to see breasts as just sexual toys instead of the nutrition source for babies that they are.
Breast feeding a baby is never indecent exposure. We scream because a mother is feeding her baby, yet we are all okay with movie posters with women being exposed just as much as a breast feeding mother. If you think it is so great- you go eat your meals in rooms that are designated for eating (no snacking on the go) and you wear a cover over your head while eating! This is absurd. It isn;t about the right of the mom or the rights of those around her. it is about the babies right to eat when hungry and to eat the way they were made to eat- via breast. I openly nurse in public, with no cover, and can assure you that nothing indecent is showing. I would dare some of the idiots commenting on this post to say something to me about nursing without a cover. Bottle feeding is not 'normal' or the way babies were intended to be fed. You guys are the biggest bunch of idiots ever. Before you expect someone else to do what you are suggesting, you try it for a bit. Go ahead, eat your meals in a bathroom or small cramped nursing room. Don't eat if it isn't the 'appointed time' or don't you dare snack on the go. Plan your day to such a level that you never have to leave home and eat OR be sure to bring a blanket to put over your head so no one else should be objeted to your eating. A woman breastfeeding in public offends you? Your stupidity offends me.
OMG really — is this such an issue? Breasts, whether on a male or female are not considered sexual organs and thus do NOT need to be covered! A man can walk down the street with his shirt off and believe it or not, so can a woman! If you are at the beach, the girls can take their tops off without infringing on any laws. There are certain places where "policies" are in effect and you may have to abide by them, but let's get this straight folks — breasts have a purpose and it is not solely for guys pleasure. They provide nourishment to their offspring and if the 'men' in charge would man-up, they would be able to realize there is nothing wrong, dirty, secretive or sexual about breat-feeding a child. Yes, I know, there are women out there who have no modesty for this privilege and just flop it out there as well as boys who can't help but ogle, but they are the minority and should not be the ones dictating policy.
I am a women, I wish women would have more privacy. I hate looking at a women breast feeding her baby. They are showing to much anatomy.
Thanks,
B.Btt
What is this, Breast feeding unbecoming to a mother? Drill instructors, get out your 341s. But seriously, as long as the mother is discrete, there should be no problem. Mothers know how to be discrete. I've sat next to breast feeding mothers and had no idea that had a kid latched on. Its called rule of common sense. Before all this "lets be sensitive to others" attitude, there never was a problem. All this political correctness crapola has made panzies of us all. Now, we are attacking mothers. I bet those Base Commander's Mothers would have a lot to say to them on this issue and it wouldn't be in agreement with these stupid policies. Again, common sense is the key to life. Use it, live it. Enough said. Got milk?
1. My wife breastfed but very rarely in public, and if she did she was always covered or went to a designated area.
2. Why does having the toddler prevent you from going into a designated area? The toddler will have to be still and/or controled whether you are in an designated area or in the aisle. If anything it'll be harder to control the child in a wide open public space while your breastfeeding than in a designated smaller area.
3. I love my spouse and hold her up on a pedestal. So I do not ever want her exposed for any reason for the world to see. I do not want the world to see my treasure even though the reason is so called "natural".
3. Why are we immature because people don't want their kids looking at breast then why don't everyone just walk around nude?
4. If I grew up in a country where women walking around with their breast exposed is accepted it would not bother me, but I didn't. So I'm conditioned to where women and men should not be seen naked except for the obvious of course.
It is sad that people have such a problem with something so natural. A basic instinct. It's sad that people have such a problem with nudity. Grow up. Move out of the colonial period. I remember my first time in Europe. I was shocked to see to big breast covering a huge window on a pharmacy store. It did not bother me, but I did not expect to see that. I started thinking about how cool these people where, but it made me think about my own perceptions. I felt really stupid and immature. I have since learned that it is just a human body, and everyone has one. No need to make a big deal about seeing some breast.
I am the mother of Tamara and what I want every one to know is that Tamara is 6ft 1inc tall I am 5ft 9inc and I had to stand on my toes to even see what my grandson was doing, so all you complainers need to grow up! or clean out your dirty minds. I seen young girls on the base when visiting showing off more than I wanted to see, my grandmother always said people that live in glass houses don't throw stones. look at your own life before you talk shit about my daughter.
Uh…I think..she is white…also.Tamara is Hindi in origin…it means palm and is a form of Tamar. But you get on with your bad self's assumptions.