New Fort Irwin Dress Code Irks Spouses


A new dress code for off-duty servicemembers and family at Fort Irwin, an isolated California Army post, has raised the ire of military spouses who wonder if the military really has the right to tell them how to dress.

The dress code, which is illustrated on the poster below and has been placed on buildings around Fort Irwin, bans things like ripped jeans, backward hats, pajama pants, very short shirts and shorts and sagging pants.


“While one could certainly make the argument that some of these are common sense, I could just as easily argue that backwards ball caps and tank tops, not to mention ripped jeans which are very much a style right now and I continue to wear mine around post, are pretty benign,” spouse Ame Esterline commented on the Fort Irwin Facebook page. “The fact that so many of you continue to accept these small lapses in personal freedoms is not evidence of your positivity, but instead shows how willingly we are as a society to give control over to another simply because a given issue does not affect us.”

The Facebook post included a long message of explanation, which has been attributed to the post’s senior enlisted official, Command Sgt. Major Dale Perez.

“When it comes to off-duty attire, what might be offensive to you may be just normal clothing to some. It takes discipline to be a professional, and to be a professional it’s a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week way of life,” he said. “Bottom line – this was the right decision to make.”

He wrote that they hadn’t made the decision because of any one incident.

Fort Irwin, which houses the National Training Center, is home to about 9,000 people and is located in the middle of the Mojave Desert. Units use the training area there for predeployment dress rehearsals.

Because the post is so isolated – about 40 miles from the nearest real town – most families feel they don’t have any option but to live on post. If you’ve ever been to Fort Irwin, or even to Barstow, you know how in the middle of nowhere it is.

The new policy gives programs and facilities on Irwin, such as the commissary, the right to deny service to anyone not meeting the dress code.

Some characterized the new policy as being unfair or discriminatory. A few were especially annoyed by the “house shoes” and “pajama pants” prohibition.

“So would you tell an eight-month pregnant woman to take off her pajama pants? Just wondering. I never wore pajamas around post until I was pregnant,” wrote Crystal Knapp. “The concern being that if you allow it for a pregnant woman (and you should), you can’t really tell everyone else not to … Personally, I’d rather spouses be forced to color their offensive looking clown-colored hair. That’s a lousy example for children, too.”

“The rest I agree on, but PJs and house shoes?!!! I take care of myself, but if I have to run to the commissary in its opening hours, I’m not getting dolled up,” wrote Rose Natividad. “House shoes and PJs are okay with me.”

Of course, not everyone commented that this was a bad policy. Spouse Heather Ann wrote that she is “sick of seeing butt cheeks hanging out, men’s underwear from sagging pants, girls wearing shirts that are semi see-through with no bra, and, my favorite, bikini top with a open front shirt over it and thong hanging out!”

But even some who were OK with the policy are not OK with the poster displaying it. They said the graphic images posted all around Fort Irwin were more offensive than the people wearing the banned clothes.

“I don’t see why this poster has to be on every building. The only time my young boys see a girl in a thong or “booty shorts” is when go ANYWHERE on post and they see this poster,” wrote Megan Studdard. “I personally could care less how people dress; it’s their choice and honestly I have not seen anyone walking around Fort Irwin wearing a thong or bikini. Did ‘The Commander’ proof this poster before it was plastered up on every building around post?”

Fort Irwin is far from the only installation, Army or otherwise, to have a dress code. Navy bases in Japan enforce a strict dress code that prohibits active wear, such as running shorts, from being worn in the commissary and elsewhere, among other things. And the US Army bases on Hawaii prohibit items such as see-through clothing.

What do you think? Should every base have a policy like this one? Should pajama pants be banned from public places on every installation?

About the Author

Amy Bushatz
Amy is the editor in chief of’s spouse and family blog A journalist by trade, Amy also covers spouse and family news for where she is the managing editor of spouse and family content. An Army wife and mother of two, Amy has been featured as a subject matter expert on, NPR, Fox News, NBC, CBS, ABC and BBC as well as in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Washington Post. Follow her on twitter @amybushatz.

556 Comments on "New Fort Irwin Dress Code Irks Spouses"

  1. the first mel | August 7, 2013 at 8:54 am |

    Base facilities and programs have the right to demand that patrons follow a dress code. Even civilian businesses have dress codes; "no shirt, no shoes, no service". I don't see the issue with dressing appropriately when you are utilizing base services and they didn't say that you can't wear these items when you are at your home on base. It takes a few minutes to throw on appropriate clothing before you leave your house. If your outside clothing is that uncomfortable to wear while you are out, buy larger clothes. Wear the pj pants and house shoes when you are at home.

    • House slippers out in public is one of my huge ???????? things. I don't wear street shoes in the house because I don't want the dirt from outside to come inside.
      And for the people who wear the huge fuzzy muppet like ones out in public with garish pajama bottoms, no bra, and a shirt that is see through (which is why I know for sure that you don't have a bra on) and either 2 sizes too big or too small….when did this become acceptable attire for any place other than your bedroom or a sleepover.

      When I was teaching, I had a parent who would show up to school everyday in the above attire, as a *punishment* for her son. Nowadays, it's just the standard run to the commissary outfit.

      I was planning to change out of my sleeveless blouse (not even t-shirt material) and shorts to go to the commissary. Maybe I'm overdressed.

    • Indian Medicine | August 7, 2013 at 6:20 pm |

      I concur- Other Patrons have Rights also not to be exposed to "Public Display" of Politics,Religion,Sexual Messaging, Vulgarity,Violence,Exposed Underwear,Gentiles.
      Many "In Your Face" display of Personal Attitudes in display in Business Establishments , distract Patrons from conducting Personal Business in a Safe & Orderly atmosphere.
      It is time to exercise your Right not to be exposed to Offensive Attire & Conduct brought on by display in the name of "Personal Rights"; yet ignore Others Rights in the name of Freedom from Accountability for Rude,Offensive,Harmful, or Wrongful Conduct or Suggestions. -Simple As That !

      • I respectfully disagree. The establishment of Rights comes from the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. There is nothing in there to suggest you have any "Right" not to be exposed to something else. Property rights are espoused in the Constitution; Personal rights limit what the US Government can do to you (prohibitions). Servicemembers surrender their Constitutional rights when they enlist, but not their spouses or families.

        • Then you are free to shop off base.

        • Spouses do not lose any rights. But they have limited rights when they walk through the gates. If you can’t abide by the rules of a privilege exercise your right not to use them.

        • Having access to a Military base is a privilege. There is enough disrespect off base if you can't follow the rules then it may be a good idea to live off base or not use their services. I know that when I step on base my children and I represent my husband and we do it well.

          • I agree with you. The U.S.population is out of control with the “freedom” to show anything and everythingwherever and whenever it wants. It’s disgusting. Representing our military well on base with the respect they deserve should be easy, if we love our women & men in uniform like we ought.

          • I agree with many of the comments concerning the generally inappropriate nature of much of todays clothing. However, I hardly think jogging on base, or doing outdoor PT, while in APPROVED PT gear, crosses that line. Military PT gear is approved by the appropriate authority, not by the base commander. Might as well outlaw long shorts and t-shirts

          • Stan DAV Life member | August 16, 2013 at 5:18 pm |

            "Having access to a Military base is a privilege." no it is not. It is a right that goes along with being the dependent of a service member. The administration at this base is way out of line and is reflective of the steady erosion of our rights as US citizens.

          • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 7:02 pm |

            It is NOT a right. The Dependent ID Card states right on it that it is a PRIVILEGE Card.

        • MSG Brown ( Retired ) | August 15, 2013 at 2:55 pm |

          Outstanding, I thoroughly agree with you. I gave up my Freedoms for others and myself to enjoy freedom.

        • On a military installation, dependents surrender many of the same rights that active duty members do. Voluntarily. Period.
          It is true that, "if the military services wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one". Dependents are treated generously, but are ultimately the responsibility of the service member — not the service component. If service members aren't insisting that their dependents show due respect for the installation, or for those who are there for performance of official duty, the commander must exercise inherent authority.
          The installation commander has the authority to set dress code policy.
          To those who disagree with that:
          Hope your husbands aren't disciplined for all your whining. The commander also has that authority.
          At stake are your PRIVILEGES to use retail and other resources located on the base — maybe even your spouse's promotion. Think about it and quit your whining and crying. Move off the base and quit trying to use facilities you dislike so much.
          If you disagree further, move off the base, stay off the base, and call 1-800-WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !
          The base doesn't exist because of you. It's about the mission. The command MUST have good order and discipline.
          Lose the inappropriate and undeserved sense of "injustice" and give the commander your respect and support! You OWE it.

        • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 7:13 pm |

          By marrying military, you had better know what you're getting into. If you want to exercise all these Rights in whatever manner you choose, find someplace other than base to do it. A military base is not Berkeley.

    • I agree with you! When I entered the AF in 1958 , rules for dress were a lot stricter than that! If dependents don't like it move of base .Dependent kids will have to live with it like it or not.

      • I totally agree. Our moral values have been forgotten. Let’s go back to the way it was in the late 50s and early 60s. Dress appropriately or don’t leave home.

    • no shirt, no shoes, no service is very different then the rules in the article.

    • I live on ft irwin. Have for 4yrs. I’m perfectly happy with the new dress code. Honestly. Took long enough! Mom’s should not dress like prostitutes when going shopping where there are children! I’ve seen women walking around with skirts so short it was scary! You could almost see her underwear! Disgusting! I don’t want my child seeing that. We’re in the Army for God’s sake! Dress with a LITTLE respect! In the Army, we have lots of rules. You knew life would be different. So accept it! There are PLENTY of people who live off post. If dressing like a homeless person, criminal, or prostitute is THAT important to you; then go live off post. No ones stopping you. Get out. I don’t want to see that crap. Have some self respect people…

    • And this is what is wrong with America. There are rules out in place. Abide by them or get out. US Americans are becoming so sloppy and careless! Complains and wines till you get what you want! What is so hard about looking presentable?

    • I agree with this entire comment. My school district has the same standards. Quit finding excuses for slovenly, disgusting, revealing attire. Just because it's to so called dress norm to some doesn't make it a good thing. Grow up and stop being an adolescent. Take pride in ones self just like those who are serving are expected to take pride.

    • I agree with the military imposing a dress code policy, but this policy is a little extreme in some areas, such as the ripped jeans and hats. I think the policy should state that anything that is gang, sexual, terrorist, and drug related is prohibited. Any clothing that exposes body parts, such as whole breasts, buttocks, and genitalia is prohibited. I don't think short shorts, shirts or ripped clothing should be prohibited, after all it is in the desert. As long as the clothing doesn't display inappropriate pics, slogans, or show private parts it should be fine. Outside of our house, my daughter wears her snap backs backwards outside. She is an A student and does not feel comfortable showing midriff, legs, or breast, so where is the problem with the hat? I think common since should be used when making policies!

    • They didn't say that you can't wear these items when you are at your home on base? What the heck to you think OFF DUTY means? Can a Spouse even be OFF DUTY?

      • the first mel | August 15, 2013 at 7:11 am |

        "The new policy gives programs and facilities on Irwin, such as the commissary, the right to deny service to anyone not meeting the dress code."

        In the article, I didn't see anything that said you can't wear these items at home.

    • It is about time that the military took back its bases from the spouses/family members!!!!!!!

    • I think there should be certain dress codes, women wearing shorts up their cracks and shirts showing their breasts shouldn't be allowed..cover up your goods for your spouse! I also agree with pants that hang down..wear them right!! Act like you have Morales and values..represent your spouse with pride and dress right! And teach the kids manners and respect too..

    • I’m a spouse and I’ve lived in Japan and on other installations. There is NO need to look like a hobo, a beach goer, half asleep, or going clubbin’ when you are on base. These are professional organizations and you should be dressed approprietly when you visit them. If you want to go to the store in your pjs go off base, maybe you can wind up on the “people of walmart” site and see how silly you look. We have the right to speak, we have the right to be free, and we have the right to remain silent… no where does it say in our rights that we have the right to look horrible out in public. There are whole sections of stores that sell clothing for pregnant women, there’s no excuse for looking sloppy. If you don’t like the dress code on base, how did you survive high school, or even going to McDonalds… they enforce the dress code too. Take a cue from your grandma and dress to impress, or stay home.

    • I am a retired Warrant Officer. Simply put you folks volunteered to be in the service. If you do not like the the rules, leave the service or live off post. It really is that simple. To maintain good order and discipline the services can and have the authority to make rules and regulations. Wearing pajamas because you are too lazy to put on a pair of slacks is amazing. Poor dress shows mental and physical laziness that is disrespectful of the military, the Soldier, and the leadership role that you as a parent demonstrate to your children. Suck it up or leave. Too easy.

    • Soldiers and dependents are representatives of the US Army, not Mtv or BET. Whether on or off duty, it is your responsibility to represent the military in the best possible light at all times.
      You’re paid for a state of readiness 24/7 regardless of any other concern you may have for the entirety of your contract. If your dependents don’t care for the rules by which you earn the pay that feeds, clothes and houses them, I’m certain they can survive elsewhere on their own.
      We all volunteered for myriad reasons and swore an oath to obey those appointed above us. If that’s somehow infringing on your rights to show your ignorance in your dress and demeanor, enjoy life as a private until you finally receive your richly-deserved promotion to civilian.
      Heck, I’ll even address you as “General Public” at that point …

    • A spouse either female or male in the military should always look their best, at the store out in town or just around the base. We all have bad days, so stay home. Don't let the ladies that are well dressed and soft spoken sway your spouse. If you should need help knowing how to dress, take a few pointers from the officers and their wives. Now ladies or gents, dress well and your spouse will want to come home. You are married to the military, a spouse was not in the duffle bag when he or she joined. Your spouse has to follow the rules, if you cannot support your spouse and follow the rules move to town, very simple. Stop the boo hooo.

  2. Living on post is a privilege. I reckon they are within their right.

    • I don’t think pj should be ban but saggy pant short where you can see these young ladies derrieres should be ban and at the same time it’s up to the individual.

      • If you are not a active member of the S Military and don't lime the Base Commanders directives to maintain proper appearance and order…..MOVE the hell off base! If you are a male or female member of the US military shut your mouth and follow the orders of the superiors appointment above you station in Military life! If you feel like you have to peddle or expose "your wares" for the opposite sex you are part of the current problems of sexual abuses that have swamped the Military Justice System…. The Military Life is not the Ghetto life of the Inner City, which all your doing is copying!!!

        • Steve, I won’t call you an idiot, but your statement was definitely idiotic. Yes, I’m sure none of these “styles” came from your classic trailer park or friendly meth lab neighbors. “Inner city ghetto?!” Take a seat.

          • So Steve is a meth addict and trailer park trash because he agrees NOT to see you or your son’s sagging shorts? I have 3 daughters. I don’t appreciate them seeing you or your gay sons underwear. Actually it’s criminal.

        • Yep you got it height steve

        • Steve, when you attribute sexual violence to the type of clothing a person wears, you are participating in victim blaming. Cultural attitudes like that ignore the perpetrators at the expense of those whom they violate. The real examination that needs to take place is of the offenders and their actions and the societal influences that allow for sexism and subsequent violence.

      • "Don't ban what I would wear, just what others wear." Yeah, 'fraid life doesn't work that way :)

    • Yes, living on post is a privilege, but Barstow is about 45 minutes from the base, so not every soldier has that option to just live off base. I am a military spouse, as well as a veteran. I was in the Army for 11 years and have seen many changes as a counselor. I know that to have to drive 45 minutes to go to work everyday can be a problem especially if you have children. You should be presentable and maintain good behavior on and off base. I also feel that if I want to throw on some lounge clothes to run to the store for a bell pepper for dinner, I shouldn't get in trouble as long as they are clean and not offensive. Everyone didn't grow up the same, so what is nicely dressed to some may not be to others.

    • You are right. You don't like what the post CSM wants your appearance to be? Move off post and pay for your own housing.

    • Stan DAV Life member | August 18, 2013 at 9:35 am |

      For all the misguided individuals who claim living on base is a "privilege" it appears they also believe one checks their rights under the Constitution at the gate. When I was sworn in part of the oath said I would defend the Constitution against everyone who attacked our freedoms. Well that's exactly what is happening here. It sounds like some extremist in a position of power is attempting to impose his simplistic & narrow world view on everyone. BTW, has anyone noticed this is just like the goal of the Taliban?

    • Living on post is not a privilege… In most cases its mandatory dependent on rank and how much housing is available for that rank. Yes THE ARMY CAN MAKE YOU LIVE ON BASE!!!

  3. BobSacamano | August 7, 2013 at 9:41 am |

    Who'd [want] to look like a thug or a pole-dancin' bimbo!!! Albeit the off-duty dress code [should] be self-policing, maybe some nudging is necessary…

    • I agree with you one most of this, but since when is official PT gear presenting a bad image? That seems really extreme. Also, the torn cut or worn jeans; The ones in the picture look like someone was working on their car or something… While I can agree that clothing like that shouldn't be an everyday item, what if you were working on your car at the Auto Hobbie Shop and needed to run to the exchange for something? Would you have to go home and change first or drive 40 miles to Barstow?

  4. the first mel | August 7, 2013 at 9:56 am |

    Is there a reason why my past 2 attempts at posting on this article have not gone through and appeared with the other comments?

    • the first mel | August 7, 2013 at 9:56 am |

      If you plan to rectify this, please post the first comment I submitted.

    • Amy_Bushatz | August 7, 2013 at 12:21 pm |

      Mel — Ill check our spam filter. It's a bit cranky sometimes. Sorry for the problem :-)

    • Amy_Bushatz | August 7, 2013 at 12:26 pm |

      Mel — The very first comment on the page is from you atm and i see one in our filter the same as that — are we good? Still missing something? Sorry for the problem. I promise we didnt capture them on purpose :-)

  5. sabrinacking | August 7, 2013 at 10:00 am |

    Years ago, I worked with a post commander who will remain nameless..who himself went around with a digital camera taking unacceptable dress pictures then making posters to post at the PX, Commissary et all. At the time I thought it was hysterical…and I still do. I don't personally find anything wrong with decorum.

    • this is an awesome idea… thought about hanging out at my commissary with a camera… might get some better shots then the people of walmart!

      • sabrinacking | August 7, 2013 at 3:34 pm |

        I actually thought it was hilarious that he would waste his time doing it. I just don't get it personally…don't be naked…got it. But outside of not covering up enough or not wearing profane sayings etc…I really don't care what anyone wears and I am not sure why anyone does. It just seems really childish to me. And if people are this offended, please never go to Africa or Rio or anywhere else…you might have a heart attack.

    • U must be a so called man..not..

    • I wonder if he realizes that by posting pictures of inappropriate attire, he's actually exposing more people to more inappropriate attire more often than if he simply said something or issue a fine or whatever they do for inappropriate attire.

  6. If you don't have to pay taxes on your items, then in my mind you should dress decently if they ask you to. But this has seriously been a policy forever, they just have to post posters with pictures to get your attention now being that people are starting to get out of hand. Once I wore flip flops to a commissary before I knew that was a huge no no… I won't make that mistake again, and that was three years ago. Cover your shoulders, butt, and your entire top half, and don't wear frumpy clothes. Its not Wal-Mart. PJ's are not made to be worn outside, and I hate the trend (sorry Nena, I'm not trying to pick at you). I'm 9 months pregnant and the worst thing I wear is flare yoga pants and an oversize top only because the maternity pants can't accommodate how low my belly just got. I'm just as comfy and I don't look like I rolled out of bed.
    And males with the sweatpants or boxers showing is just as bad if not worse.
    I just don't feel its too much to ask to dress appropriately on a military base in stores that are tax-free. Its not like they are asking you to remove all faddish colors from your hair or limit you to natural-looking make-up or flat close toed shoes only.

    • sabrinacking | August 7, 2013 at 10:52 am |

      Dude. I have been wearing flip flops during the summer for the past 18 years to the commissary…I have never once heard a flip flop is a faux pas. EVER. (I do of course not pair said flip flops with sweat or yoga pants…)

      • Actually Hawaii is the only place I know of where flip flops are technically allowed on base inside. It is usually clearly labeled with the dress code regulations what kind of footwear is deemed appropriate. Women usually find a loophole with this since most of the flip flops we wear are not “shower shoes” made out of rubber. I know a handful of times I was actually asked to leave the store since my leather flip flops were not found to be appropriate.

    • What does tax-free have to do with anything? As long as it is not lewd in the eyes of the CO then who gives a crap. If dependents have a problem with it they can always file a civil rights violation.

      Sailors and Soldiers you are in it till the end. Do what they tell you and bring it up at CO's call and recommend changes if no common sense is being used.

    • Julie Frein | August 13, 2013 at 5:24 pm |

      I am the spouse of a 24 year Navy vet. I so agree. From 1984 on, baring tummies, butts, etc, is simply not appropriate outside a poolside or your own home. And as far as the dropped drawers, ripped jeans, and so on, give me a break. You represent the military. It isn't a 9 to 5 it is 24/7 on and off base overseas and Conus. Your attitude, appearance, what you do in public, on foot, in your car, in uniform and out of uniform reflects on you, your family and your branch of service. It is not about YOU. YOU are part of a COMMUNITY. And with that comes RESPONSIBILITY. So, get over yourselves. Spouses too. You DO NO WEAR THEIR RANK. When you treat others like your think they are lower than you are, you are RANK.

  7. Meh, you live on post, you accept the rules. Pj pants in public to me are just as stupid as saggy pants and getting dressed to leave the house is not getting "dolled up". Just my opinion.

    • You are right Petra. Being around military for the last 28 years it is sad to see how EVERYTHING is going downhill. I have to say that most of the people who I have seen of many posts/basis seem to be "lower class" people with no "culture/style/class" or common sense. Every generation has its own fat ion and the present generation has one of the ugliest fat ions however it is THEIRS. I see people are repeating the point that we shop "tax free" and therefore we should NOT complain about new "rules" – REALLY??? Give me a break most of the produce that I buy in commissary is ROTTEN and plus what about surcharges that we are charged…
      None of those restrictions affect me, HOWEVER the rule about people not being able to be in their workout clothing and shop on the way home is IDIOTIC.

      • Nope, don't agree with the class comment. I've seen plenty of "middle/higher class" gals who dress like they need the extra money… That excuse doesn't fly…

      • DependapotamusNOT | August 28, 2013 at 7:04 pm |

        Sadly, "classless" seems to be the new fashion. I see it as not a class issue, but one of laziness and society as a whole going downhill. Shameful.

    • If I wanted to see PJ pants in public I would go to Wal-Mart. If you live on Base/Post live by the dress code as there are other restrictions that are required if you live or shop on a military installation.

  8. So happy to hear this and hope that all military installations bring back enforcement of the dress code. Common decency and sense may be lacking in the general public, but the military acccepting the ways of the general public are just adding to the downslide of the society as a whole. We should be leading the way, not folowing the bad examples! When I first joined the military I remember all of these being enforced and I sure have missed the enforcement. Thank God at least one senior leader has the fortitude to stand up and do what's right! Good for him and Ft Irwin.

    • Buddy Harrelson | August 15, 2013 at 7:08 am |

      The Commander should be given a Star on his soldier if he does not have one, and if he does he should be given another one. Support him 100%.

    • Isn't it a shame that so many people think the sloppier they dress..the better they look. :( Time is overdue for bringing back decent/common sense dress codes. What has happened to personal pride in dressing up or decent…and not wanting to expose so much of what other people DO NOT want to see???? !!!!

      • Sadly, they don't realize that people don't want to see it. They are getting attention and that is enough to make them think people enjoy seeing their "goods" on display.

        • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:11 pm |

          I need to have a t-shirt made for exactly this situation… "Your spouse may want to see that much of you, but I certainly don't. PUT SOMETHING ON."


    • Frances Johnson | December 17, 2013 at 5:30 pm |

      I was a new young, Army wife in the early 70's and I was very comfortable with the dress codes. Attending any event on post shopping at PX or Commissary, going to movie theater, etc, required one to look nice to represent their spouse and themselves. No rollers in the hair, skirts or dresses, nice pantsuits were allowed soon after that. However, it seems that a few years after pantsuits were allowed, the code was relaxed to long pants and a blouse or shirt (no halter tops). Gradually the "dress code" went from relaxed to virtually nonexistent. During the early 80's I remember the men staying with the grocery carts to watch the younger wives, in their short shorts, as they bent over selecting packages of meat at the meat counter in the commissary. Something definitely has to be done to bring some common sense and "respect" of oneself, as well as others, on the military installations. I'm all for "ladies be ladies" and "men be men."

  9. I live on Pendleton and these posters are everywhere. I think it's great. We are representatives of our service members, their branches, and the bases we live on. You never know who is on base. Shouldn't we give a good impression?

    • AMEN :) Many dependents forget that bases and other military affiliated places are a privilege for them. A service member does not have to give their spouse a dependent ID card this is a privilege not a right. To many woman (and men) who marry into the military now are doing it for status and what they feel are entitlements that come along with being a spouse. I was once in Annapolis near the academy and some girls were walking around they were dressed to the 9's and a group of guys said hey come on our boat. The girls looked at them asked "are you marines?" they guys said "no", the girls responded " well then no we don't were going to be marine wife's, so we don't have time for you little boys" My friend and I were disgusted, these girls were seeking a status qua not love they just wanted to be marine wife's just so they could say they were…..

      • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:16 pm |

        It disgusts me as well. I chose my husband because I love him as a person, not because of his prior active service. AFTER I said yes and put on that ring, he re-enlisted. A year and a half later, I still have not gotten my privilege card. Why? I don't go on base without him at this time. He served and is serving, HE earned the benefits. I was unable to serve (twisted back), and because of that I feel I have not earned his benefits. If mil spouses don't get that, then perhaps they need to find other places to spend time and other careers to marry into.

  10. One of the best policies I have heard in years.

  11. I went to a private college that had a similar dress code (albeit much stricter). People complained about it, just like they will about on post dress codes. The fact of the matter is, if you don't like it, don't go on post. The leaders want to project a positive, family friendly image of the base and expect soldiers and their families help them do so. Are some of the rules stupid? Sure, but if you want to be there, you can choose to abide by them or go home. Personally, I like the focus that has been placed on professionalism. It helps the civilian world take our soldiers and military life more seriously.

  12. So stupid. I can’t believe we’re spending time, money, and brain space on this. Who cares what others wear when they’re shopping? I mean seriously. Clothing is totally subjective and as an adult I feel that I can dress myself. We all have our flip flop and gym shorts days and we ALL have our PJ days. I just wanna get in and get my cheap bit worry about BS dress codes.

    • I don't care how depressed or sick I am, I will NOT wear PJs to go grocery shopping. Putting on a pair of jeans and a shirt will not make me more depressed or sick. And if all "adults" COULD dress themselves properly, these dress codes wouldn't be necessary, would they?

      • I completely agree Petra. I had back surgery last Sept and had a 6 in incision and I only wore yoga pants when I had a follow up or I didn’t leave the house until I was able to comfortablely wear jeans.

      • I wish I could give this multiple thumbs up. In fact, getting dressed might just help you feel better, especially if you are feeling depressed. (DH did tease me about getting dressed to go to the ER. I told if that I could but my pajamas on if I was admitted.)

        The need for explicit dress codes just part of the general selfishness that is so prevalent today.

    • sabrinacking | August 7, 2013 at 1:17 pm |

      I sort of get you on this. I don't really see anything wrong with asking people not to be half naked or wear profanity…but really, I think the world…particularly a military at war for the past 12 years has bigger fish to fry then sweats and flip flops. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around what the big deal is? Is it some sort of disassociation? I mean, can we no longer stand addressing the very real problems we have…like, I don't know the front page of the Army Times last week…and so now let's focus on sweats and flip flops? Some psychiatrist jump in here…I only have my measly Masters in Organizational Leadership and I look at the last three posts I have commented on at SpouseBuzz and am thinking….is it any wonder we have the problems we do? If this is where we put our focus.

      • I agree with you. I can understand having a dress code/aka common sense about wearing things that are inappropriate, but if you are going to do that, please also tell people to stop talking like a sewer too. My children can't read, but they sure as heck can understand the spoken word.

        As far as wearing flip flops and PJs/Yoga pants.. GET A F(#*ING LIFE. We are in the military, this is not the fashion police, you are not Cosmo. If I want to wear PJs, flip flops, and my hair in rollers, I will. Heck, when my husband as promoted I wore flip flops to his promotion ceremony. Granted they were "dressy" flip flops, but I'll be darned if you are going to take my flip flops away.

        • sabrinacking | August 7, 2013 at 4:38 pm |

          Agreed. I have worn flip flops to the commissary in the summer for 18 years….I don't get what the big deal is. I tend to think its certain people don't want to deal with the reality of war, so if they play tea and dress up and Bunco…then gosh darn it, everything is A-ok! Its bizarre. I find it to be like walking into the Twilight Zone.

          • Do-do-do-do-do-do-do… (que Twilight Zone Music)

            I just thinks it's a means to feel superior and self-important, and WAAAAAAY too much time on our hands. I have much better things to do than to sit around a begrudge and berate someone because they are wearing flip flops and jammies. Next thing you know, we'll be required to wear white gloves, and talk like Snow White.

            The really frightening thing is that many of these articles are coming from younger spouses, so are we coming full circle and this is going to be my aunt's Army again?!? I sure hope not. I rather like being treated like an adult.

          • Wow, you really have it out for Bunco, don't you? I do not believe flip flops are the issue at hand at ALL. It's the lack of discipline and respect for said base, the regulations, and other members. And let's be frank here, bedroom clothes and those of a revealing nature do not belong on post…no one cares about flip flops, or (tasteful) casual attire. End of story. I've read your other comments, and clearly you are having a difficult time, and for that you have my sincere sympathy. But stop making this a 'class issue,' or an 'elitist one', as you have on so many other posts, please.

          • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 10:05 am |

            It is absolutely an issue of class. Take a college level course on social dynamics and get back to me.

          • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 10:19 am |

            ****Backwards hats, flip flops, yoga pants, doo rags….how do any of these things NOT demonstrate this an act of classist censorship, not really keeping people from being profane or not exposing people to too much bare skin. I tend to agree with JoJo on this. Sure no profanity or gang signs on clothes, no dressing like a hooker…Roger, got it. But some of these items are out and out racist to be quite frank. And I am not black, and I don't wear any of them…but it is absolutely about imposing classist cultural norms on people who are not in that class. Any half educated moron can see it for what it is. When those of you who can't understand that go and take a few college courses on social norming and class dynamics then I will continue to have this discussion with you, until then…ya'll are nutjobs trying to hold fast to a status quo. In Org Behavior we call that entrenchment. It never works over time.

          • The fact that you have to keep pointing out that you have gone to college in itself is one concerning point do you think your words hold no merit if they stand alone? I find it interesting that you were quick to point out the fact that you are not black which would tend to leave others wondering if you have some unaware racism going on. I see many individuals of all races wearing the supposedly offensive styles. *Sighs* This goes to prove that a college education does not necessarily make you smarter. Just because people disagree with you does not make them nutjobs, it means there is a difference of opinion.

          • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm |

            No I point out I am not black, because I am not saying its racist…because I am black. Which I was accused of already in this discussion. Also, more than once in here because of my name people have presumed I am black and therefore anything I said was stemming from being black.
            And I think it has merit to say in a room full of people yelling and screaming their opinion as the majority…I mean read some of what people have posted, its pretty angry stuff…"hey listen up a second, I am not pulling this out of my arse here…what you are saying, is actually textbook entrenchment". I think this and other conversations on here reiterate a truth in our society right now, its very polarized period. Some people, the majority in this topic, are very threatened by any sort of cultural change. Doo rags, yoga pants, sideways baseball caps…are not offensive to anyone…unless…those people happen to be intrinsically racist. Period. End of story. Its not showing skin, its not being profane…its something one culture wears predominantly, or those associating with that culture…and so the majority is offended that those people aren't conforming to its majority dress standards.

          • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:25 pm |

            Actually, Sabrina, sideways baseball caps were the NORM–as were backwards ones–when I was growing up. Yoga pants are worn, at least in my area, by people of ALL backgrounds. I thought it was silly then–much like sagging skinny jeans now–and I think it's silly now. Not absolutely everyone who has an issue with these types of fashion is also a racist. Remember, there are exceptions to EVERY rule, even the ones your books tell you. ;)

          • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 4:22 pm |

            Many of the problems we have in the Army stem from the Army trying to entrench itself in 1950s idealism. Healthy organizations are not isolated islands. Healthy organizations, exist inside the culture to which they belong…not separate from it. Also, I am reading a lot of sentiment on here that is just statistically not true. Leadership is a science. If you make leadership decisions based on false assumptions, such as "the society is dumbing down"…which is statistically not actually true…see the Flynn effect, you make bad leadership decisions. Some of which, actually have the opposite affect you are trying to accomplish.

          • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:33 pm |

            Society's grasp of the language (in America, we'll go with English) is getting poorer, and they have been trading READING and good education for television, movies and video games. Compare the US Education system to those of other countries…it's atrocious. This is fact, proven by science. Technically, that means the theory that "society is dumbing down" is, in fact, true.

          • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm |

            Finally, at the end of the day the Army is in flux. People in flux tend to freak out about trivial things and not focus on the larger issues, this is also part of entrenchment. The same people screaming the loudest over dress codes, are screaming over gays in the military, and women in the military et all. Those people are clenching so tight to a status quo that no longer exists, they are willing to pull the entire organization of the Army down with them. That's not healthy. And it won't work long term. That's my point. To entrench so deeply and drag an organization down with you…makes someone a nutjob.

          • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:30 pm |

            Yes, dragging the whole ship down with you is indeed nutty. So what about those who agree with the dress code, but ALSO agree with the repeal of DADT, believe women belong in the military except in CERTAIN Spec Ops areas, and believe it is the responsibility of a military spouse–gay, straight, trans, female, male, etc–to behave in a manner that does not reflect badly on their spouse or the military as a whole? You consider that nutty, I presume?

          • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:21 pm |

            Hi, I HAVE taken college courses in psych and social dynamics. It is indeed an issue of class. Do you know what else it is? They have PROVEN that those who dress "up" tend to act better, politer, and with more "class" than those who dress "down". It has also been proven to raise personal self-esteem, morale, and general feelings of well-being. Maybe this should not be considered an attack on "class", but rather an attempt to raise your personal image. Dress lazy, you will act lazy. Put in effort on something as simple as your clothing, and you will begin to put more effort in everywhere. Perhaps that is the point behind this. Did you think of it like that?

        • Talking like a sewer is a no-no, but typing like one is fine, eh? :)

        • Sorry JoJo. If the rule is that you won't wear flip flops and PJs/Yoga pants to the commissary, then you WILL NOT do so. You don't have that option on post. Grow up.

        • Reasonable Person | August 23, 2013 at 11:05 am |

          There is NO PLACE outside of the home where it is appropriate to wear pajamas, on or off of a Military base. Get some common sense and some self pride!
          The dress code for Fort Irwin is totally appropriate, and for most people only represents reasonable behavior. For those of you who think the dress code is too strict, were you raised in a gutter somewhere???

      • The problems you address are in part caused by our inability to police ourselves without help. This particular policy has caught some wind because AT and others have picked it up – it's certainly not out of the ordinary. It is part of a holistic program that absolutely DOES get after those "real" problems.

    • Retired ANG Chief | August 8, 2013 at 8:12 am |

      Hey dudeette, its folks like you wearing anything they please that has caused this dustup. I personally don't want to see butt cheeks hanging out or most of some guy's BVD's showing and I don't think many others do either. I don't know if you are aware of this but wearing a baseball cap backward or sideways automatically lowers the IQ by about 20 points. True!! You live or shop on base or post, dress like they ask. That simple. Don't become an Army version of a Walmartian that we see on the internet from time to time. Back in the day I was barred from the commissary on an army post because I had on a tank top. I had to go to the PX and buy a shirt so I could get in. Dumb at the time but "rules is rules".

    • Renee being in the service or being married to a service member is an honor. Maybe we as members of society should hold ourselves to a higher standard. Remember its there playground so follow the rules with a quite stance or find somewhere else to excersise the rights all service members have protected foryou and yours.

    • "As an adult.. : you write. I beg to differ.

    • The problem is that there are many adults that do not know the difference between Sleep wear and cloths that only a hooker would wear outside. Cloths does make the difference. A will dress individual in the office will be more respected and even more money. then the person dressed like a bum or hooker. Sorry guys, but I want my wife to go out looking like a lady, not the town whore.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 28, 2013 at 7:42 pm |

        Funny story…before my husband re-enlisted, he once said the same thing to me. (I generally went out without makeup, with my Giants hat on, ripped jeans and a tee shirt because it was comfy.) I let him HAVE IT about not telling me what to wear, etc. What he said next made the difference:

        "If you go out looking down on your luck, or like a slob, people will see you that way. You're an amazing woman, or I wouldn't be with you. I want people to see you for the wonderful woman you ARE, not make assumptions based on the way you are dressed."

        None of us may like that we are judged by our clothes, but we all are. I still don't wear makeup often–it's bad for my skin–but I do stop and think how my clothes make me appear. Slob or ho sure as heck ain't it.

      • yes,, exactly. Dont want kids going out seeing people who look like they belong on street corners!!

    • What all those who have posted have missed is that Fort Irwin is a training base. Whether it's Lackland AFB, Great Lakes Naval Training Center or Fort Benning, training facilities are all heavily populated by the very newest Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen. Those newly inducted service members learn how to wear their uniforms in basic training. But there is insufficient time to translate that same pride in appearance to their off-duty attire. And make no mistake, the military expects its members to respect a conservative style of dress when out of uniform. It's a basic esprit de corps principle. You can't be a good Soldier part time. Consequently, it falls on the Commanders of the next post in the training and indoctrination path to teach young service members what a "conservative style of dress" is appropriate. It is entirely appropriate for that Commander to demand that ALL the folks that inhabit his base dress appropriately to reinforce his training needs.

    • AnOfficer&Gentleman | August 26, 2013 at 10:42 pm |

      I have never, ever in my life, worn pajamas outside of my house. People have taken the selfish attitude, "It's all about me." Well, it's not. As a person, we owe society at large the respect to not have to deal with our lack of self-respect. Life isn't just about you and whether you care about how you look and how you present yourself. You owe a modicum of respect to others just because you are a member of the community. That includes dressing with some self respect. Nobody wants to see you in your pajamas, bathing suit, underwear, etc. Especially if you are, "average," meaning overweight and saggy in most places.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:27 pm |

        Even if you belong on the cover of Playboy, we don't want nor need to see you dressing that way. By joining the military–whether you signed the contract or married someone who did–you are joining a very DISTINCT community with certain standards. Don't like it? Leave the club. This is especially true for those not IN the military, but the families thereof. You don't HAVE to be on base. You don't even HAVE to live in the same state as your serving spouse, though many of us want to. YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE AN ACTIVE PART AT ALL TIMES. If you choose to be, then you have to get with the program. Period.

    • If you cannot see the problem, then you are the problem !!! You need to take a little pride in your lifestyle, not one that makes others think you just don't care about yourself…….

    • Issues at hand is, it isnt just you, its kids in the stores and frankly ive seen many wearing shorts where butt cheeks is out. thats ridiculous. There needs to be limits because some people choose to be tacky about how they dress..The military is about discipline and we all could stand to have more of it!!

  13. Sadly, the only ones that have an issue with this will be the lazy dependapotamus'. They married their spouses with the clear understanding that he/she was in the military and they conform to orders and regulations from higher.

    I don't know why its such a shock, if you don't like it then dont reenlist and get out. How hard is it to put jeans, a shirt, and shoes on? I mean really?

    • A Humble Spouse | August 8, 2013 at 1:20 am |

      Wow, why are you so angry and rude?

      • Probably because he/she is tired of the whiners complaining about following the rules. If you don’t like it GET OUT! This isn’t the line for a welfare check; though sometimes it sure does seem like it.

      • Lisa's angry at the people not smart enough to dress themselves like mature adults, and complaining when the error of their ways is pointed out. Rude? It only seems that way to those not smart enough to understand.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 7:08 pm |

        Probably because Lisa is IN the military, and tired of all the spouses–there are TONS–that have no respect for themselves nor their spouse or the military. These are the people, Humble Spouse, that give the rest of us a bad name, because they're the ones throwing junior-high level fits. Marriage is a contract, and by signing it with someone in the military, there are certain standards we are held to. If you didn't know what you were getting into, you should have done your due diligence and research.

        (By "you", I'm not referring to you specifically, Humble Spouse. In case there was confusion. ;) You know who I'm talking about.)

  14. LOVE IT. Should be implemented across the board.

    • like….like everywhere in America? But…what about the bald eagles? What about Rushmore? WHAT ABOUT FREEDOM!? Seriously, though. Kind of absurd that a military that is supposed to be about protecting freedom would be regulating the attire of civilians.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 7:10 pm |

        With freedom comes responsibility. A child gets freedom as they grow when they prove to their parents they can handle increasing levels of responsibility. When adults act like children, the same rules apparently need to apply.

  15. What goes around. Back in the day a lady didn't move around the installations with curlers in her hair.

  16. How is a rear-facing basecap offensive? I see this as a step in a dangerous direction. The same arguments used here are used in the Middle East to enforce the dress code for women – Burkas, head-to-toe black robes… I get that there is a middle ground between thongs and that. But if today an "exposed midriff" is forbidden, and shorts can't be "too short" (what is too short anyway?), I fear tomorrow I might have to cover my shoulders, then my neckline, then my knees… What about bright colors drawing attention to the body? Or geometric prints doing the same? Flashy jewelry? A "wild" hairdo?
    Where does it start, where will it end?

    In Europe, the USA are known as the "Land of the plentiful freedoms", but actually, the personal freedoms in this country are a lot less than over there.

    • Then go there and enjoy all your personal freedoms.

    • Margery Bass | August 7, 2013 at 10:25 pm |

      If you have to ask (what is too short?) then it's TOO SHORT!

    • It’s all about respect for your military member. We married the military so we need to be considerate to what we present ourselves as. When my husband first joined I could always point out the military families. We always presented ourselves well. Now that the basic training is putting out whiners, they have been brining in there trash with them. I don’t care what rank you are, it’s all about being proud of yourself, your spouse , and your family.

      • Fawnze, what a brilliant argument. I will remember that I am disrespecting my husband the next time I consider putting on a stocking cap.

    • This policy HAS BEEN DOD policy for decades, but it's been laxly enforced. Ft. Irwin just decided to __give notice that it's being enforced. You gave up certain rights when you joined, or if a dependent, when you go on base, the landlord (DOD) has the right to set conditions. Their freedom to do so trumps your freedom to be offensive.__Rear-facing ball-caps are seen as part of the "thug" fashion statement, and most of the other items are either stupid, ugly, or inappropriate anyway. The only items I object to are "underwear as outerwear" and "pt gear". No, I don't want to see your drawers, but t-shirts are NOT underwear, have been socially acceptable outerwear since at least the 1950s, and the policy has been pointless and stupid since then. My objection, of course, won't change the military policy, so I not only obey it, I enforce it. And the PT gear policy – yeah, don't work out and go to the galley still sweaty, but I have to wear non-pt gear to jog if I'm not at the gym? __Ya don't have to like it, and you can gripe all you like, but you ain't changing it, either.

      • Proud to Serve | August 15, 2013 at 5:34 am |

        First, the policy being decades old is an argument AGAINST it, not for it. The Army, and the military are organic and ever-changing; to conform to "social norms" is a part of that nature. Second, when you join the military you do not give up ANY rights, that is a fallacy; you swear to support and defend the Constitution (which itself is a living document and its interpretation evolves with societal changes) and to obey LAWFUL orders, which includes what you can and can't do in uniform or while off duty in civilian attire (e.g. adultery).

        • Proud to Serve | August 15, 2013 at 5:35 am |

          …Third, making the argument that t-shirts are not underwear and justifying it as being socially acceptable once again deflates your rear-facing ball-caps argument; which, by the way is based solely in OBJECTIVE OPINION of a dwindling (read: aged and dying off) minority. Fourth, a dress-code policy that infringes upon the rights of private citizens, who are related or associated with servicemembers, is not only a dangerous first step in the overreaching of military authority on the path to a martialed state.

          • Proud to Serve | August 15, 2013 at 5:35 am |

            …Fifth, anyone who imposes a restriction on American citizens that wrests from them their natural-born, or earned, Constitutional rights not only violates the oath of enlistment/office to defend the Constitution; and likewise in violation thereof they are an enemy of the state, and therefore any/all servicemembers must do their sworn duty and defend [it] against ALL enemies both foreign and domestic (i.e. refuse to follow this UNLAWFUL order, inform civilian government officials (who by law control/run the military)) and encourage their relatives and associates to disregard said imposed restriction……. Sorry that last one was a bit of a rant, but still I hold to the point.

    • Cold War Vet | August 9, 2013 at 9:00 pm |

      My father always taught to wear your ball cap facing the direction to want to travel. You know what? He provided great advice. I never wore my ball cap facing backwards, because I never wanted to think or walk backwards.

    • I think people now a days don't really care about their freedom. Why should I have to cover my shoulders? Plenty of shirts with no sleeves look prefectly fine. I understand when you go to meet other spouses or military people you have to look presentable but when I'm out like at he commissary I want to be comfortable. I'm not there for you to look at me or to socialize. Please show Me some respect and don't stare at me. Some times I'm cleaning my house and have to run to the store to get things. I'm not going to get all dressed up to go and come home to clean again. It's seems to me it is just those people that like to judge that have the real problem.


      Americans are always so proud of and tell anyone who listens how "We are free!" BUT have more rules/laws what CAN'T BE DONE than any other civilized country.

    • Too short would be '80's style…I guess. :)

    • So move, anyway. Bye-bye…

    • What the commander and many posters here don't realize about this dangerous precedent is what it actually means. I have been called trash for speaking out on this, and have had insults hurled at me. The policy is RACIST and CLASSIST. Do you know what a doo rag is and what it is used for? It is not a symbol of being in a gang, like most white people think it is. African American hair is coarse and naturally curly. The doo rag is worn to keep hair from falling out of braids, during flat iron treatments, and to keep male hair wavy. Doo rags are sold at the BX, they are also used at the BX beauty shops and barber shops. Banning doo rags is essentially telling African Americans you have to look within military standards, but you certainly cannot utilize the tools necessary for keeping your hair within military standards, and it is also inflammatory towards African American families who use doo rags. It's essentially telling someone that they cannot wear their hair a certain way, because it's a symbol of gang membership. Is that really the military you want to be a part of and are proud of? My dad is a retired barber in a primarily African American community and he was in the US Army, when I told him of this policy, he said, that the commander is asking for an IG complaint.

      Banning things like t-shirts with swear words, drugs, offensive sayings, etc are completely within the commander's rights. But this ban is not within his rights. This is stamping on the rights of other American citizens. If you think it's trashy to stand up against this, then OMG no wonder the military and its commander's turn a blind eye to sexual harassment and assault, racism, and other discriminatory practices.

      • I really applaud you for saying this Jojo613. It is ignorance at a level that should not exist in today's day and age. I will be the first to admit that I grew up in a predominately white semi-suburban area and know little about the ins and outs of black culture, but this I knew was down right racist. I understand that the military has stricter rules and requirements, but that does not make a sexist, racist or bigoted environment acceptable.

      • Oh! What a load of crap!

    • Please just let me describe one example of inappropriate clothing in a public environment that may make sense of the arguments. Let us take Physicians, Nurses and various other Healthcare Providers, who are my personal heroes every day. I have seen them when they are so tired or overworked that they are still wearing scrubs when they leave work, whether it is for lunch or, having left work for the day, shopping at the commissary. Whether straight from surgery, on-call or having completed rounds for the day, I have seen all of them going straight to cafeteria's, restaurants or stores where they shop when they get off of work without thinking of how they were dressed. Would you consider this improper clothing if you only saw them in the "getting a bite" environment? Would you even question whether or not they were coming or going from their daily duties? Scrubs are now accepted clothing for people other than Healthcare Personnel. How are these examples different from "pjs"? I personally do not want someone touching the merchandise I am buying, for my family to eat, touching everything I am purchasing when those people have slept in, worn as they cared for a sick child overnight and yes, even changed a diaper in during the night, putting their clothing near my food and other products I may be purchasing. There are appropriate places to wear certain types of clothing and there are inappropriate places to wear the same clothing. I personally do not want my family's food entwined with anyone's sleepwear.

      • Really? If you are going to do that, you might as well extend the ban to all parents with young children, because children are walking, talking petri dishes, and I have seen far more parents not wash their hands after changing diapers than medical personnel.

        You might as well also extend the ban to people wearing burkas and yamakas, because they are not representative of "American" values either.

        • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:34 pm |

          In what fantasy land is a yarmulke against American values? Now you're just reaching.

    • I totally agree. I get that some of the things here don't fit with proper decency, but again, ripped jeans… really! One of the things I do when I'm troubleshooting a broken piece of gear on one of my submarines (call it superstition), is to turn my ballcap around backwards. and I'm one of the older school guys. PT uniforms only at the gym? Seriously? When my command PT's, we rarely run on the actual track. We run AROUND THE BASE! Should I need to have a pair of slacks and button down shirt to run around the base for PT? I think not. This is going way too far. What are we going to do next? Remove all PG-13 and a higher rated movies from the Exchange? Don't let me find a pair of ripped jeans in the Exchange, or a skirt that is too short. Maybe we shouldn't sell ballcaps at all on military installations. I could go all day long on this one, but I will stop.

    • I've never been to the Middle East, but I have to agree with you. Funny thing is, the same people who put that freedom bumper sticker on their cars don't understand your logic.

  17. I know for some, the dress code seems extreme, but here is the deal, if you get dressed every morning and cover the parts that need to be covered a dress code shouldn't be a problem. The same such dress code was put into place when we moved to Japan many years ago and it wasn't a big deal. I personally think nothing says "I have given up on myself" more then pajamas in public. I have been in the commissary and seen couples where the husband is dressed, nice jeans, a nice shirt and the wife is in her pajamas, I cannot believe this woman's husband is really okay with this, mine wouldn't be, he doesn't expect me to look like a beauty queen but he expects me to put on a pair jeans when I leave the house! The man helps defend freedom for goodness sake the least I can do is look presentable for him in public!

    • I agree Mac,
      We are representations of our husbands and it is considered to be inappropriate to leave your home unkempt. My husband always tells me that he feels very blessed that he has a wife that is always clean, presentable, and keeps our children the same. Whether we want to believe it or not, people do judge off of looks until you are able to get to know a person. If you look like you know care, then I will think you don't care about yourself until I get to know you. There are many times that I see people and think," those are not people I want in my company", sad but true. I am sure that many of us have thought that, evenif it may be wrong to some.

    • I'm glad that your husband has attire expectations for you. Does he expect you to be barefoot in the kitchen making him a sandwich when he gets home too? I have expectations for myself, and I'm certainly not of the bra-burning mentality..but the day my husband thinks he has the right to tell me what to wear is the day we head to divorce court.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:37 pm |

        There is a difference between telling your wife you feel "blessed" because she has standards you approve of when it comes to how she keeps herself, and demanding she be that way. Please educate yourself on the difference, because that comment most certainly sounds like a Berkeleyite bra-burner.

  18. Baseball hats worn sideways or backwards look stupid. Always reminds me of the little kid sucking his thumb with his pants down around his knees and baseball cap backwards.

    • my comment to the backwards ball cap, goes way back, to my little league days, then only time we wore our baseball caps backwards was when we were the catcher and had to put our cap backwards (before helmets were required), to put on our catchers mask, other wise, cap was worn facing forward,. PERIOD.. grew up that way, fight my boys over it daily, I win most of the time, and all the time with if your inside my home, NO CAP is worn Period. but it is a daily fight,

  19. I agree with the new rules completely. Shopping and living on post are privileges and they can create whatever rules they want to. If you don't like it, don't go there.This is not one of those times to start with if you let them create one rule then where does it end propaganda. This is the US military, it is their facilities and their land, they can do whatever they please. When you enter that gate, you are entering their front door. I create the rules when you enter my front door and they can also. Being a soldier and/or military spouse is an honor and we are held accountable for much more than civilians. If you don't agree with this then possibly you or your spouse are in the wrong career field.

  20. I'm not offended by the people who wear pajamas out in public.. Simply amazed at how pathetically lazy they are.. Reflective of America in general I suppose.. Good on the Army for trying to fight that image.

    • I AM offended by pajama wearers. They're telling me, "You're a fool for going to work to support my a… on welfare. I can lounge around all day. You have to get dressed up to go to work. Thanks for the money, sucker!" For crying out loud, people, GROW UP.

  21. Hooah Army! Navy and Marine Corps have been doing this for decades. I too believe that there are items on the prohibited list that are not in line with today's fashion (faded/worn jeans). However, my family has always been able to find attire that meets the policy while maintaining fashion and comfort. We’ve all seen it, raised an eyebrow, and maybe even commented to our significant other on: seeing underwear outside their intended clothing, let alone through the clothing (overstretched yoga pants), exposed cheeks or the muffin top, and the bikinis under a see-through sarong, dress, or shirt/blouse. The rubber flip flops are for the beach, pools, and community showers. Do we really need to define the true purpose of pajamas? I personally do not like head gear of any kind outside my uniform items so I won’t even go there. All our Commanders are asking us to do is dress with pride and professionalism which can easily be done casually and comfortably. Do you want or allow your kids to dress like that; if not, then why would you?

  22. In regards to the Commanders reviewing the posters before displaying; I’m confident that legal reviewed and approved them. Use them for your children as educational tools on how not to dress and maybe in a couple of decades military commanders will not have to waste time addressing these issues. I think the next post/base poster should show what’s not accepted during service formals!

    • Considering the military has a rather large sexual assault and misogyny problem kids seeing this poster is the least problematic issue. JAG may have approved it but that just disgust me even more. Bunch of men deciding that a picture of a women in a small bikinis in a suggestive pose and the butt shot is okay for public display is beyond me.

  23. I'm actually appauled at how many people approve of, and actually support this policy. Are you kidding me? I thought the point of the military was to protect our freedoms? Like oh I don't know…freedom of speech? (Which in case you forgot also covers clothing and fashion styles) Anyone who joins the military understands the dress code as soon as they get out of basic, but now your going to impose a dress code for dependents? Why should someones wife (or husband) be subjected to a similar dress code as those of their spouse..when THEY'RE NOT IN THE MILITARY. This is a dangerous path to be treading on. If we have the right to tell spouses what they can and can't wear while they go food shopping, whats next? Personally I would love to see someone have the balls to come up to my wife and tell her what she can't and can't wear if she's picking up some groceries. Lets get your priorities in order there Uncle Sam

    • Margery Bass | August 7, 2013 at 10:32 pm |

      I think the spouses have the option of living off the base and doing their shopping and paying the higher prices. If you want the benefits, then pay the price. Is it really too much trouble to change out of the pajamas? Get real!

    • My father was in the Army and he was stationed at Irwin in the early 1980s. Part of being a military dependent (chlld or spouse) is that everything you do reflects on your sponsor including the clothing you wear and whether it is clean or filthy. It's part of the military culture, which exists on any base.

      I'm sorry, but clothing as free speech needs to be something that actually contains a political or moral statement. Much of the banned clothing only says "I'm lazy."

      • It shouldnt matter what it "says" its their CHOICE to wear it.

        • It not only "should be" their choice, it "is" their choice. But it's the base commander's choice whether or not to let them on his/her base.

          • There should not even be any base housing or bx. All living quarters on base should be for military personnel only…..everyone else lives off base. This would eliminate many problems!

    • I've got the balls. Send her to me if you don't.

    • Wrong, as long as you are living or using the installation facilities, you made a choice to follow the regulations/rules. It is a privilege that can be taken away it is not a right. These rules have been around just not enforced. Read the very fine print on your enlistment paperwork, also check the dependent paperwork.



    • Dependents represent their spouses and should dress accordingly. When I was stationed in Germany, I was required to wear a suit and tie to leave the base. In winter, I was required to wear an overcoar w/gloves. Jeans were not acceptable wear period. The rules were later changed to allow men to wear jeans when participating in athletic events. There is NOTHING wrong with this. Also, NO ONE was alowed to wear BDU's (fatigues) downtown shopping. Looks crappy shopping in soiled work uniforms. The military is supposed to set the example!!!!!PERIOD!!!!!

      • I do NOT represent my spouse. My spouse does NOT represent me. My spouse also doesn't command me, or make me be one way or another…

        • Thank you jojo613! Testify lady! I married my husband because I love him, but I am not his arm candy and I am NOT his trophy wife (clearly..who would choose me as a trophy wife ;) ). I live by my own set of rules and standards, although they fit with what the military requires I don't appreciate always being referred to as a reflection of my husband. Last I checked the military wasn't my employer and I pay half the bills in this relationship. You can tell I live off base right? :)

          • Exactly the point. You, Justine, live OFF-BASE. On base, the military should be allowed to set the rules, and if you don't like the rules in their house, don't go there. In any marriage, EACH spouse is a reflection of the other. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether he commands you, you're his arm candy, or any other nonsense.

    • I actually generally agree here. Rules are in place to not offend others, but some of these fashions are very subjective and not really offensive at all. Why should rights be needlessly taken away?

      Flip flops and pajama pants don't cross any lines in my opinion. For those who say living on base and having tax free shopping is a benefit, I laugh at you. Try comparing prices to the local Wal-Mart and I bet you'll find there is rarely any benefit to shopping on post. At the PX, every single price can be beaten on the internet including shipping. A privilege to live on post at Ft. Irwin? This is the funniest of all; have you ever been to Ft. Irwin? If I were there I'd choose to drive the 40 miles each way to an from work everyday to avoid this bafoonery.

    • Wont be so funny if she looses her privileges, she may not be in the military but she is using military facilities. Being in the service is a 24-7 job and this is not a new policy its just that now common decency and or respect for oneself and others is on the decline. Bottom line for all of us who have the privilege of utilizing the exchange/commissary facilities get with the program or get out.

    • Danny, I'm just curious as to whether you are have ever served in the military or not. I'm thinking probably not. Otherwise, you would have a little more common sense. It's a privilege to live and shop on base and as such, the Commander has the "right" to dictate what goes on on his/her base and that includes telling people how they can or can not dress. If you don't like it, get your butt off base and keep your spouse off base too if she is not willing to abide by the rules. I know I and a lot of others that would have the "balls" to come up to your wife and you if you were with her and inform her if she was dressed inappropriately and if I were to ask you for your ID card in order to identify you to the Base Commander, I'd expect you to surrender your ID card on the spot. If not, I'd ensure I tailed you and got every bit of information on you I could in order to identify you later and write you up according to the UCMJ Articles you violated. But, as I said, you are probably not Active Duty and never served our Country and probably just a troll on this page.

    • Danny, ever thought about going to school before preaching? Before instructing the military where it is wrong, don't you need to know what's right under military law (aka UCMJ)?

    • Family members do NOT have to comply with such an oppressive policy. They have a choice. Comply, OR, move off post, buy at a civilian grocery store, and find how what your housing allowance will buy you, and what it will cost for fuel to get to base and return. The Post
      Commander is responsible for the garrison facilities i.e., the landlord.

      Get over it, suck it up, or don't re-enlist. Then you can wallow in you own s–t until a neighbor gets in your face.

    • Because they live on a military government base, They married into the military it is their rules or leave the base I guess you never served a day in the military or you would get it.

    • I agree100 percent. A spouse or family member is not a member of the military and unless they are doing something illegal or unethical they should be free to do as they please. The military is way too concerned with image over substance anyway. that old nonsense that if someone looks good they must be good. I was removed from an advanced training class in the field artillery because I didn't do well on an inspection but the dummy who was failing the class was retained because his uniform and shoes looked so good. Hope he didn't go to fire direction control or special weapons.

  24. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE has the right to tell someone who is not under contract from the US government what they can and cannot wear, even on base. If you want to tell your spouse how they should dress, that's your own perogative, but don't speak for the rest of us. I may not agree your fashion style looks good, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to wear it.

    • Your spouse CAN where whatever she wants to wear; just not wherever she wants to. The military has certain standards and expectations, and if you don't like them, shop somewhere else, live somewhere else, and collect a paycheck somewhere else. Obviously if you and your family do not understand and support policy, then you are merely collecting a paycheck, and not serving in the military anyway. No body tells dependents that they have to shop at the commissary or exchange, they are free to shop wherever they want to and can then wear whatever attire that place of business allows — hopefully they don't mind ending up on "people of walmart"

      • Not always that easy. A spouse and family cannot simply just decide one day to live off base. Depending on your BAH, living situation, career speciality, and housing in the area, we all know that sometimes living on base and using on base amendities is the only realistic choice. Just because I asked my wife to marry me, doesn't mean I asked her to sign an enlistment form either.

        • Actually your wife is as much a part of the military as you are. They definitely know the rules and regulations when it benefits them. All potential spouses can not deal with the military lifestyle and therefore choose to not marry or live in separate places. The military is a community with standards and I'm unsure when we went wrong but the standards have substantially dropped. I commend FT Irwin for setting and adhering to standards. Hopefully other posts take notes.

        • And just because you got married does not mean that you have to shop on base. You do not HAVE to live on base, you may choose to because it is more affordable and makes more sense but you are not required. So you can "simply just decide one day to live off base"
          You didn't ask your wife to sign an enlistment form, but you do have her sign for a Military Dependent ID Card which makes you responsible for her actions and she must uphold the standards that the military requires in order to reap the benefits that the military provides.

          • Where do you expect them to live off base, in a tent? Where else can they shop at Fort Irwin? Some of the rules are common sense, and some of them are down right stupid! And the posters? Well, talk about offensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • TOUGH. You WILL follow the rules, or you WILL lose your privilege (yes, it is) of living on post.

          No, your spouse didn't sign an enlistment form, but her behavior WILL affect your evaluations and promotions. Don't like that either? TOUGH.

          You still have a lot of growing up to do, kiddo. Your time in this military will be short if you don't grow a pair and suck it up.

        • If you want to use the benefits, you have to follow the rules. Period. Looking like "Wal-Mart Trash" on base is unbecoming to you as a person as well as to the military as a whole. You're not in the ghetto, so don't dress or act like it.

    • Wait a minute… you'd die so some tacky piece of crap can wear booty shorts or sag their pants?

      • It's called FREEDOM! Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can choose what they wear. While I don't like them sagging their pants or booty shorts, I'm not going to try to get rid of their freedom. If you don't like it then don't look. Easy!

        • You come to my place, I have the freedom to make you leave if you won't dress as I see fit. Easy!

        • You're obviously new to the military. You don't have the "freedom" to dress in a way that embarrasses yourself, your sponsor, your command and your military branch. You WILL be removed from the facility if you don't want to conform to the commander's directives.

          There. Now you know more than you did when you woke up this morning.

    • When you are married to Military personal, you also have to abide by the rules on a Military Installation. Your military spouse is held accountable for your actions. They are the ones who are responsible for your actions and will pay the toll for you not complying with the rules.

      • Gee, I was married for the last 14 years of my husband's 23 and they tried that b.s. with me. "You have to belong to the wives' club or it will hurt your husband's career", I was told. Thankfully, he knew me and knew I had my own life and career, OUT of the military. What you are saying, Kathryn, is that you are a helpless little girl who wouldn't know how to use the potty without your husband telling you how. You are talking about the politics in the military that are of no use and do NOT help with military readiness!

        Okay, by the way "personal" isn't the word you want, it's personnel..

        • Cat… must not be to familiar with the military. Your decisions not to abide by base rules can result in your spouse be called in front of his unit commander. The punishments will get greater until he/you decide to conform! I know….during my time in the Navy I made some choices (examples; buying alcohol for minors, refusing to work on Sunday while underway) that was not to wise and I had to pay the cost. You will stand that Sunday watch on a small ship with a limited crew!

        • Young Devil Dog | August 15, 2013 at 5:02 pm |

          14 years and you still don't get it. I am surprise you are still around with that type of mindset. I am new in the military and married. I hope my wife supports me because we both are in this together. I like decorum, respect, pride and professionalism.

        • Cat, I don't think that comment was necessary. You are being snide.

          I don't think anyone is referring to having our own life outside of the military, as a spouse of a military member you are , whether you like it or not, your spouses' dependent. That is what entitles the millitary member additional pay and YOU an ID card.

          • Thank you, PS1. Right now, I am the one with the higher income, and I pay most of our bills. This will change when my husband is commissioned, but even with my income, I AM his dependent on a military installation. Dependapotamus? Hardly. But I understand that, when on a military installation or around his fellow sailors, I am expected to act and dress a certain way–in the same way that he, when around my clients, is expected to act and even dress a certain way. I run our house, I run our family, and his unit is well aware of this…but this doesn't give me the right to act improperly–or in a way that could possibly embarrass or look badly upon him–when around the military. If your "woman power" is so fragile that being improper and not following proper rules and customs damages it, then you have other issues you might want to address. My husband married me KNOWING that I am one of the loudest, outspoken, attitude-having "Women Power" women out there, but also knowing that I am enough of an ADULT to know the time and place for things.

    • The U.S. Government Has the right to tell your spouse how to dress on base. Or you are not
      allowed on base, and the government has the right to ban you from any base.

    • WRONG!!! Grow up, act like an adult and use your head. If you're living on base you ARE part of the military. That's like saying the base police can't arrest you for breaking one of their laws…wrong again.

    • Danny fighting to the death for freedom is one thing…for the right to wear crappy jeans is another. Guess something has changed since my 8 plus years on subs in the 1970's….

    • Hey, Danny, I'm with you. I just wrote a long post which may or may not appear, since TPTB here only seem to like to show what they like. Did someone forget something called the U.S. Constitution??

      • Did you read the signs before entering a military installation? Some rights/privileges are different on federal land, you made a choice to be on that installation. These rules have been around for a long time just not enforced. Small price to pay, cover your bottom, breasts, underwear, …if you don't like it you do not have to live or shop at the exchange…Walmart is always waiting.

      • Cat, you don't know as much as you think you do. The Constitution says NOTHING about a right to enter a military facility wearing clothing or behaving in a manner that embarrasses everyone around you. If you don't get your husband kicked out of the military for your cluelessness, maybe you'll learn as you get some time in. Until then, learn from those who've been there & done that. Failure to grasp this concept will only make your life, and your husband's life, miserable.

      • Did you forget something called The Uniform Code of Military Justice?

      • Nobody forgot the Constitution, LEAST of all the men and women who put their lives on the line to defend it. The military has the right to demand that, on THEIR installations, a certain behavior and way of dressing is required. This is no different than the rules you set for those entering your home. And, as an American citizen, you have the right to not use military installations and privileges when you do not agree with them.

    • Danny you're right. Nobody can tell a civilian (even a dependent) what to wear. But we can tell them not to come on the base.

    • Looks like there area a lot of people who were brought up not respecting anyone and seem to think that they can look like the slobs they are, and feel that its all OK. Well you are on a military base that is the property of the government and therefore the property of the people of the United States. We the people want your to respect us by not looking like a bunch of kids that have no respect for yourself and no respect for others. Where were your parents when you were children – at work? Do you also eat with your hands at the dinner table like pigs? Grow up!!

    • When you enter a military installation, you ARE under contract. Read the signs at the gate. Don't like it? GTFO!

    • Actually They are under a type of contract when they get that dependent ID and become eligible to use those facility's. I do believe if you live in housing on the base that you do fill out an agreement that includes all persons living there.

      • You do. I had to get a recommondation from the post SGM. And my ex wife was a BITCH, and it got so bad that the post CDR was ready to boot us off, then i got deployed to Korea and she had the choice to stay on base, but it was so bad and she was such a bitch that a 2 star didnt even want her there so she had no choice but to move back home. So yes the spouse is also under some restrictions as to what his/her conduct/appearance should be on the military installation. And as for this "CAT" person …shes an idiot

    • 64DWhiteFamily | August 15, 2013 at 10:22 am |

      Actually they do. It is called a direct order. Join the military and figure it out. THE MILITARY HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ANY SOLDIER TO DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT.

      Dont like it get out… YOUR SPOUSE… HAS NO SAY! THEY CAN MOVE OFF POST WHEN EVER THEY WANT! Tell them they can come on post when ever they can obey by the RULES…. YOU WERE ORDERED TO OBEY!

    • Danny, you can say that as long as you wish, but it WILL NOT change the facts. Policy is not conditional only "if Danny likes it".

    • Danny, if you are a civilian, YOU defend and fight for NO ONE. Go see a recruiter, raise your right hand, and take the oath. Then, go right up to your base commander and tell him all the self-righteous perceptions that you have about command responsibility, and prerogatives of same.

    • They best way to handle this situation is to not allow dependents military housing, then they can dress anyway they want to.

    • Then move off post

  25. Look people they have you arguing over pajamas as they are increasing your TRICARE. Get a grip and focus on the real issues.

  26. Also the exchanges are a rip-off on their prices even with the no-tax. Why is gas more on base than off-base if it is just taxes?

  27. I have no objections if they are giving you money to shop and live on their bases adhere to their rules. Pretty hard to bite the hand that feeds you.

  28. The base belongs to the tax payers and the base commander has all the authority granted to them to manage it as they see fit, for anyone living or working on the base, to include spouses and dependents.

    • Really? So where does that line end? Can a base commander tell my wife how to talk or act? Or what kind of car she can drive? Or what kind of music she can listen to? How far can a commander go on infringing on peoples freedoms? You have another thing coming if you think for a second that the base commander is going to tell my wife or child not to wear ripped jeans or a backwards baseball hat. Bottom line: our spouses and dependents are not bound to the same rules and regulations that we are.

      • the first mel | August 7, 2013 at 10:25 pm |

        The base commander can dictate what is allowed in base facilities. Use some common sense. If spouses and dependents want to use base facilities they have to follow the rules. There is still choice in this situation. Dress the way you want and use civilian facilities or dress according to the dress code and use base facilities. It's up to you.

      • when living, shopping, and getting "discounts" offered to the military then YES those spouses are bound by the rules of that Post don't like it your spouse etc, doesn't need to be there. Really the sense of "entitlements" by this generation is outstanding (probably explains how we got the 8sshole we have as CINC now). Maybe we should quit offerering incentives and extra salary to military personnel just because they found someone to shack up with for the next few years. No other employer gives it's employees extra $$$$ for having kids or being married

      • Danny, your dependents need to wise up and realize that dressing like a thug, a bimbo, or a bum is not a right on base. You can explain at your hearing why YOU sponsored them and permitted them to do things YOU knew better than to allow, and YOU can suffer 45/45/ 1/2 for 2, etc. for them. That’s how they “get away” with telling your dependents to behave – as if your moral outrage means anything to a legal monolith like DOD / JAG. If you think your dependents can tell off some jerk trying to get them to act right, then YOU have another think coming. Enjoy!

      • Yes they can when it comes to obeying the rules that have been set for that installation. The only thing is your spouse will not be held accountable, you will. You are responsible for your spouse and children's actions on a military installation if you are the service member. You need to check what your responsibilities are when it comes to your family's behavior and actions.

      • As a matter of fact, Danny, the Commander *CAN* tell your wife how to talk (no cursing) or act (no running around nearly naked) or what kind of car she can drive (no excessive rust, no noisy mufflers).

        Your dependents (your spouse is your dependent too, by the way) ARE in fact bound to the rules of the base. Don't like that? Too bad. You don't have a choice. You'll follow the rules or you'll be penalized. She'll follow the rules or you'll be penalized.

      • Actually, Danny, a commander CAN punish the persons in uniform if dependents do not comply with policy. It is not up for vote.

        • No, they cannot punish active duty for things done by dependents. This is an absolute falsehood. The only "punishment" for not following the "dress code" is ban them from base, but even then that would raise a bunch of questions. If a dependent does something illegal, then it is reported to the civilian authorities, and dependents are turned over to civilian police and investigators. But if I "misbehave" the commander cannot do anything to my husband– that's called grounds for an IG complaint.

          When I was active duty, I was not the best officer in the world, hence why I am no longer active duty and my husband is. I made lots of mistakes. My mistakes have not ONCE affected my husband's career, and they should not.

  29. oldbrokendownretiree | August 7, 2013 at 9:50 pm |

    Danny; being in the military,living, working and using base facilities is a privilege, if you don't like it go away, but if you stay abide by the rules or face the consequences, end of story, The military and their families portray an image and that image is not the saggy-panted, hoochy-mama, stereotypical trailer trash image. If you don't like it either get out or don't join; in the military, you forfeit some of your personal freedoms to uphold all of them, I realize that won't make sense to you, but to those of us who have actually dedicated our life to defending something it makes perfect sense.

    • Oh blow me. I'm well aware the military has certain standards, but nobody needs to ask their wife and child to be forced to live up to those same standards. A military members' family does NOT, by any means, need to be forced to live to the same daily standards as the one serving. Just because you don't agree with the way someone wears their clothes doesn't mean it needs to be banned. And yes, this IS the first amendment in case you forgot what freedom of speech actually meant.

      • You have just proven your ignorance by your nasty response because you do not like someone's else's thoughts. It seems if you do not agree that everyone else is wrong.

      • If you dont like the rules nobody then get out. Military life is just not for you

      • Jim in Texas | August 15, 2013 at 4:30 pm |

        Danny, when I was young and a dependent I nearly cost my dad his career. I learned that those that lead, understand that if you can't or won't make your dependent follow rules, (any rules and not just reasonable rules), then you are not fit to lead others. When I finally had dependents of my own I understood that statement was right. Good discipline (following and enforcing rules) is what keeps you alive in combat.
        Next time you are "down-range" and someone shouts "duck", go ahead and assert your right to do as you please and not follow orders.
        Freedom of self-expression is great, but while all these rules being set up for your dependents may end up saving their lives, because without self-discipline, they are easy targets.
        In the real world, today, even schools aren't a safe place to send your kids. You'd better hope that they understand and have self-discipline if a shooter is shooting up their school and their teacher "asks" them not to peek out in the hall just to watch the fun.
        Sorry man, I use to think like you and later learned different. I'm glad I never lost any of my children, because I didn't teach them the importance of discipline.

  30. While some of it makes sense, what sort of swim suits do they approve of?
    The type that used to come down to the knees on men and women?

  31. Well if you do not like the polices get off bace.

  32. Back in the 60s, woe be to them that wore ANY kind or color of jeans. And it better have a belt with it As far as footwear goes, the only places that gym shoes were allowed was when you were running, or in the gym. going through all of the loops, and the buckle be centered in front of you. As far as shirts go, they were to be buttoned to within one button of your neck, and there was to be no writing or ads on it or any of your sweaters or jackets.. As far as ties go, it was a long tie tied in a Windsor or 4 in hand knot, and NO BOW TIES. As far as jewelry goes, it was to be kept at a minimum so as not to come across as gaudy. It seems to me that this is what they want to get back to.

    • Lee…ever wonder why most schools have dress codes. Let me pass this along just in case you might be to young to know. After living the military I began teaching middle school students (8th gr) back in the mid 70's. Girls especially would come to school wearing mini-skirts and tops with no bra that exposed their breast to the point you could see their nipples…and see their pubic hairs. And please don't call me a pervert or some sex criminal. I had to get after some boys for throwing rocks at a girls feet to make her dance so her breast would bounce for them. It was terrible having to deal with all that mess. We did not have much trouble from the guys and their clothing back then.
      Some of you say you do not want anyone telling your wife what to wear. Picture this scene…. your wife/daughter takes a shopping trip, while not wearing appropriate attire, Joe Blow sees them and decides he wants his time with them. He waits for the opportunity to make his move. He snatches her into his vehicle and away he goes. I can see you know on tv begging for their return/safety. Now what brought all this own….who should shoulder the responsibility for this mess. You are a military man and decide to tell the BC to kiss where the sun don't shine… nothing to correct your family's ways. Whose fault is all this? I live not far from the beach….go down on the strand and take a look at the women/girls and you will see just how naked they are. Some of them you can swallow what they have on….and we wonder why there are so many sexual assaults of females these days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Hey Dewey dumbass. Just because a person dresses provacatively doesnt mean its there fault if they get raped. A person can walk down the street buck naked and no one has the right to rape them. Pull your head out of your ass and quit being part of the problem.

        • Shane….you are exactly correct. If you want to walk around wearing clothing of a provocative nature that is your or any other persons business. But you had better take a look at the real world. People get ideas from what they see. Some sexual pervert sees your daughter leave your house often with shorts up to her crotch….he continues watching her. He will soon begin making plans on how to fulfill his fantasies. Now…when it comes to controlling who/what/when/where on a military base the base commander has that responsibility. Liberal ideas like yours and others makes his job more difficult. Sometimes it becomes necessary for those in charge to make difficult decisions such as this one. Evidently there was a problem here or he would not have made such a difficult decision. If some individuals want to show their stuff let them go out in the desert. All this reflects on the base as a whole. I'm surprised the Army is not run over with request for transfers to Ft. Irvin.
          The name calling you have done in your post reflects your intelligence. Now as far as me having my head in my rear…..I have two daughters, one grand daughter, and a wife. I hope my wife has more respect that to go shopping with breast showing/wearing shorts up to her crotch or another item that would reflect poorly upon her as a woman. And most of all I hope she and I have passed this on to our daughters. So far it looks as if we have. I hope if you have children you are a good role model for them. Your language in your post doesn't point you in that direction. I do not consider myself a know-it-all even though I have a B.S. and a Masters Degree but the tone in your post implies that you are a smart-ass. If you are in the military I sure hope your attitudes do not reflect back on the unit you are assigned too. Have a great day !!!!!

        • Being "part of the problem", Shane, is encouraging people to have no personal responsibility to the way they dress and act. It's not their fault if they get raped, but don't sit there and encourage this ridiculous notion that no-one needs to take responsibility for their OWN actions anymore. That is one of the reasons our society is falling apart. Don't want unwanted male attention? Don't dress like a ho.

  33. I think the majority of our dress code here is needed. Why should anyone be dressing wither half naked or in their pjs . I think these wives forget we are a direct reflection of our husbands. I personally don't want to be seen looking like that by anyone my husband works with. Pajamas is probably one of the things that annoys me the most. Its not that hard at any time to throw on some jeans and tshirt or yoga pants something better than jammies. Honestly if ppl learned to dress appropriately they wouldn't have to put up posters to tell us how to dress. Just an fyi these type of dress codes have been around forever they just havnt been enforced and they need to be. Danng The military shouldn't tell the families how to dress well maybe the families shouldn't be entitled to discounts or any of the numerous things we get for free either since we are not the ones working for these things. Just saying.

    • In any marriage, each spouse is a reflection of the other. To the civilians commenting on here, or the spouses that consider themselves their own woman, if you owned a business with professional clients, would you be perfectly fine with your husband showing up with his pajama pants hanging halfway off his butt and a dirty bandana covering his hair? Probably not. It's the same thing here…in case you can't understand this any other way, THIS IS THEIR JOB. In the off-base world, your family, spouse and friends showing up to your place of work acting a fool and being inappropriate gets them excused from the premises and many times will get YOU in trouble. How and why is this any different?

  34. "No one's going to tell me how to dress yada, yada, yada". You know maybe if some of you self indulgent, self centered, materialistic, petulant DEPENDAPOTOMUSES would have had parents that taught you how to dress before leaving the house instead of allowing you to express your individuality, you wouldn't have to be told you look like a trailer trash slut/barracks ho that just crawled out of their last "baby daddys" bed before going shopping that morning.

    • Ronald, expressing one's individuality does not equate being trashy, classless or acting inappropriate. Some of us were allowed to express our individuality as children…but we were also taught RESPECT, that there is a time and place for everything, and that there are CONSEQUENCES for bad decisions. The problem seems to be people feel nowadays that there shouldn't be consequences for actions.

  35. You can always tell when we are going back to a peace time military.

  36. Robert Everhart | August 8, 2013 at 7:56 am |

    Good for the base.

  37. As a tax payer I like seeing seeing my money spent on respect. Way to go on the new dress code!

  38. I think the military should mandate that all dependents also prohibited from wearing hats at any angle other than straight ahead in the direction of the face and any diviation is absolutley prohibited. And they should mandate that all males get military style haricuts and all females wear their hair above the neckline to ensure all patrons are adhering to post/base norms and look professional.

  39. Thank god the important issues facing the military are being addressed. Screw possible changes in retirement and increased Tricare payments; forget that pesky War on Terror!

    Death to pajama pants!

    • Because you feel that base leadership (which has nothing to do with retirement and Tricare) can't multitask? They can handle multiple wars and deployments so I assure you they can handle this.

      • And they’ve done a bang-up job with those things you’ve mentioned.

        But, sure. Dress codes trump all other issues.

        Let’s all get our priorities straight!

        • Nothing trumps anything else. The dress code is simply one of many things that need to be reviewed, updated and or enforced.

      • Really? Google Dr Woodward Tricare Autism Treatments. Or Dr Woodward Tricare Walter Reed Medical Center and Wounded Warriors. Then come talk to me about how well they are multi-tasking.

    • Well said Sarah. Their are far more important things to worry about.

    • Normal people can handle all of these issues. Try it sometime.

    • Congress mandates issues such as Tricare and retirement benefits not dresscodes at the PX/Commissary. Base Commanders do not dictate Tricare policy or retirement benefits. These are separate issues. I don't think there is a soul alive who is going to say "let's jack up the cost of Tricare in order to keep pajama clad people out of the PX!" But now it doesn't really work that way, does it?

  40. It's about time somebody wake up and bring the issue to the table. The base commander has right to apply and enforce the proper rules about dressing in and around their installation. We need to show pride and professionalism in our military, that includes dependents 365/24/7. Bravo Zulu to that base commander to bring some sence of pride.

  41. Camp Pendleton has been doing this for years. I agree with the “pajama” pants being banned. Being stationed on camp Pendleton you see all kinds of weirdo spouses. It is truly an embarrassment when you see a well groomed man holding hands with a woman that looks like she just crawled out of a dumpster. I agree with the holding dependents to a higher standard, if we can do it so can you. Don’t embarrass us!

  42. You may be a rebel, but your old man is in the service and you both decided to live on base – so there are rules just like in society – you have the freedom and option to move off base and live in the hood and dress whatever way you want. In reference to no violin case in the chow because he may sneek food out. Think about it – some idiot not following the rules probably took food out of the chow hall against the rules before and ruined it for all the people playing by the rules – get it "the rules". Don't like the rules – move. Don't like the chow hall rules – eat off base or at home. Don't like the military lifestyle – GET OUT and see how long that lasts not playing by the "rules"! As for the flip flops at your husbands promotion – yes that is a "complete lack of common sense" – I'm sure you made him proud dressed like a "river women" at an important part of his military career in front of his peers and leadership.

    • sabrinacking | August 8, 2013 at 11:32 am |

      Dressed like a "river woman"…what the h is the supposed to mean…exactly. They are flip flops. You want to know why I wear flip flops any chance I get? I am a native. I have next to no arches and squares toed feet. When I wear regular closed shoes, I have to where these little spacers given to me by the podiatrist that go in between my toes..otherwise my toes rub together and crack open in regular shoes. In the winter I wear five finger shoes or mucklucks. I suppose those aren't appropriate either. You have entirely to much time on your hands if you are walking around staring at people's feet…my grandmother used to say.."If anyone is looking at your feet that close..kick them." And for the record, probably dress from those flip flop feet up more conservative than 99% of the people here.

  43. In the military you don't have the rights you do as a civilian. So they have every right to expect you to follow some set standards of dress and conduct. There would be no order and disicpline if you could do and wear what ever you want. You are in the military or a spouse of someone who is. You don't like the dress codes get off post, or get out of the military, as you don't really have a clue as what it intails to be in the military.

  44. You are representing our military on duty and off duty! This goes for spouses as well!! If you don’t like the rules then move off base, shop off base and wear what ever you want:) get used to the dress codes because there are other bases that are doing this as well!! What command says goes!!! You made a choice when you chose the military life!!!

  45. As a former Air Force brat, an Air Force retiree and DoD civilian who works at the commissary, I applaud the CG and CSM at Ft Irwin for what they have done. Quite frankly though some people might find the pictures offensive, it's a good idea since some of these lunkheads that serve today need visual aids.
    When I was growing up on USAF installations in the 70s and 80s, it was unheard of to be attired in such a fashion on base period. Men were not even allowed to have earrings as well. I even recall as an Airman that there was a section in AFR 35-10 and AFI 36-2903 telling you what civilian clothing was not acceptable to wear on base. As a cashier in the commissary today, I have seen just about everything to include women going commando in mini skirts. The last 25 years has seen a decline in the standards of dress and appearance of both military members and dependents which is a shame.
    Leadership DoD wide needs to step up to the plate and follow the example set at Ft Irwin.

  46. Cortney (Vet) | August 8, 2013 at 10:19 am |

    For one thing, why is it always the spouses that complain about everything? I am getting sick and tired of them they think they no everything about the military and they think they can do whatever. Well ladies suck it up because like any other military member and vet will agree, "It's the Military." If spouses are complaining about these rules well then dang they wouldn't last a min in the Military , and that's the thing SPOUSES it is a military facility not Walmart where you can go and dress like you want these are rules that are by the military because that is how the military is. So again suck it up because for one it's not going to change and deal with the military owning your military member cause that's what it is.

    • You need to go back and read who those complaining comments are from before you go on your little rant about "us" spouses. Majority of the spouses agree on this and want it widespread and throughout. The biggest complainer has been an Active Duty Member. So stop hating and blaming the MilSp for everything (yes there will some of those but it goes the other way around just as often) and actually read what is right in front of you before playing the blame game!

    • Some of us are NOT complaining, there, bud. In fact, a lot were supporting the choices, because we realize there are rules and regulations for being a military spouse. Some of us might even have done a little research, or intended on joining ourselves before injuries took that chance away. If you go back and read the comments and pay attention, there are TWO spouses spouting off feminist nonsense, and they live OFF base. Please do not throw a blanket opinion on all the spouses.

  47. Your "rights" are as those described by the military installation. Don't like the rules? Move off post — or better yet – dress like a "normal" human being. Spouses and dependent children need to reflect a little more "raising." But that's just MY opinion……

  48. Be happy, th emilitary could go back to the days of uniforms 24hrs a day and permission to marry an dleave post!! Our soldiers anddependants look too ganstaish and trashy. I've seen people @ th ecommisary/PX that are wearing clothes more appropriate for the beach than shopping!! The military is just that and can set the rules fo rtheir bases. IF you don't like it, get out or live off post!! You sign up for all th ebennies and the down sides like obeying the rules of those appointed over you!! It ain't IBM!!

  49. Vietnam Sailor | August 8, 2013 at 10:56 am |

    Its about time that the Bases start putting a dress code back implace, when I was in the service wife's had to wear dresses to go to the Commissary and exchange. they had to meet certain lengths to. A military Spouse should take pride in themselves and their children and dress in a manner to show that pride. The same should be true when a service member is off duty they are still a member of the military.

    • god, you can tell you are from the Vietnam error…times have CHANGED buddy. Frankly if anyone told me I had to wear a dress to the commissary you bet your sweet behind the FIRST phone call I would make would be to every media outlet I could get ahold of to spread the word that the military is violating woman's rights. I tell you what, I'll wear a dress to the commissary when you wear your dress uniform to the commissary…every…single…time.

      That said outside of pajama pants on this sheet, I don't really have a problem with it.

  50. the service member should be responsible for his/her dependents, therefore, the dress code should be given to the SM who then passes it on to his/her family. This way, if there are infractions, the SM will be held responsible for failure to obey. if the dependents don't like it, they can go downtown with the rest of the losers.

  51. i can tell you that some of the bans on objectionable clothing is good sense. Personally, I don't like going to the commissary and seeing extremely short shorts. The woman is telling all the male soldiers that she is hot. Well, they know she is, and she doesn't have to tell them. Since the thongs came out, along with tight jeans, when a woman bends her body to retrieve a shelf item, you see her thong. Whether she knows it or not is not the point. The same goes for males. I really don't admire a man's 'crack' as it appears more like an insult than something to admire. During the Vietnam period, the military wife was expected to wear appropriate clothing, usually a dress, and act properly when on base. Since then, little by little things have changed. If a woman wants respect, then she needs to act respectively. Personally, I don't mind seeing the young soldiers with relaxed clothing like a hat on backwards or muscle shirts, but his underwear needs covering. During the Vietnam era, I raised four boys and two girls. Never at any time did any of them wear inappropriate clothing, nor did they want to. The climate was not there for inappropriate behavior. The military family needs and deserves respect, as they have earned it…..and if you want respect, then there has to be discipline.

  52. I like the spouses complaining "I'm not in the military.. They can't tell me what to do!" While at the same time, you know they're the same ones who try to use their husband/wives rank like it's their own.

    • or say how dare the military cut THEIR benefits, because you know, chores are apparently the same as active duty

      • Hello guest, if you are a military member you must be single, because most all military members with families join because of the benifits of knowing your family is taken care of…. And I agree that we are not in risking our lives for this country, but I want you to know we don’t just do chores!!!!! We take the kids to and from sports, school, hobbies, we pay the bills, do all the shopping we learn how to fix the car when it breaks, fix the water pipes, lawn mower, we so everything a civilian family does with two parents. Usually without help from any family, EVERYTHING!!!! Move cross country or from state to state. Now I’m not whining about the dress code.. Cause I am tired of white trash wearing pj, short shorts with they’re ass hanging out and defiantly swim suits in the stores. And gang type of clothing… I don’t wany child looking like a whore or gang banger so why would I let Them dress like that. But you don’t cut us down till you walk a day I my shoes, hey in January you can trade with me, it will be snowing here and my husband will leave for a year. Take care of my 16yr, 11yr, and 2yr old

        • The commissary is a PRIVILEGE. You are not entitled to shop there. And do not try and compare being a spouse (who you married doesn't matter) to being a military member. My husband is living away from my daughter and myself, and I have to do everything on my own, he would GLADLY trade doing my "job" of taking care of our daughter/house/shopping any day over the stuff he deals with daily- and that is stateside.
          I've been in the military, I've been deployed, and I've been a spouse. It is by FAR easier to be a spouse even "learning to fix the car…"

          • I never said that about the commissary, I am one that believes that everything I have is a benefit because of my husbands job. And my husband has spent most his time in the desert than at home for the past 10 years. So I also understand the difference between his job and mine. I wk for the federal government, So knowing what they are getting rid of the Mwr program stateside, lowering bah, closing commissaries. (Ours is one ) closing medical clinics bases stateside. And what will i do when that happens … the same thing I do when my husband leaves. Just keep going. It upsets me all when people cut down the spouses., even though we don’t have it as hard r as our spouses, we do have it a lot harder than most people in the civilian world. And my husband would not be in the military if he thought we weren’t taken care of . Our benefits

          • Than most people in the world?? I'm a spouse and I can't even agree with that. We have it harder than one parent households, than parents with terminal diseases and no insurance, than parents with a spouse behind bars? than parents with no benefits at all, than parents with no jobs? And YOU have a job outside of the home for the "federal government" at that? If your spouse is away he is also receiving combat/ hazard duty pay on top of BAH. Even you can't be naïve enough to believe that. Unless you have no limbs, no job, are by yourself PERMENATLY, no outside support every day you wake up and feed your children is a blessing! While this life is no cake walk, in comparison it could be MUCH worse we are blessed beyond measure. If you where trying to redeem spouses with that statement you failed miserably, please don't contribute it doesn't make us look good.

          • Wow! Great response, and I concur. Being a military spouse is not the absolute worse thing to be.

            Now, all the more reason to obey the rules set forth by the Base Commander…

          • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:50 pm |

            It's all perspective, kiddo. We have it harder than some and easier than others. Focus on the good side of being married to military, not the bad.

  53. If you're concerned about your personal freedoms, move off base. Fort Irwin is a Federal Reservation and the Dept. of the Army is well within its mandate in setting dress standards. If personal pride and acceptance of professional standards don't inspire you to dress appropriately than enforcement of the rules should.

    If you want to look like a hip hop thug or a hooker, the Army or any other service may not be for you. While you are bound by the rules you voluntarily accepted by taking advantage of the privilege of living on base (that's correct, it's not a guaranteed right) you should honor your responsibilities.

  54. I agree with it. It's sad that it's come to this, but there has to be some standard. The way I see people dressed on post is embarrasing and then they get nmad when you look at them (men and women). My hat's off to this Commander and CSM. I hope the rest of the miltary follows the lead!

  55. artymgysgt | August 8, 2013 at 2:19 pm |

    In the early 60's blue jeans such as Levi's were prohibited at my N.C. base. I did not understand the rule but I complied with it. A lot of the crappy fashions we see today originates in urban city gang attire. yeah and that includes the wearing of hoodies when the weather does not call for one.

  56. artymgysgt | August 8, 2013 at 2:44 pm |

    I worked at a club outside the base of Camp Pendleton and we had a dress code. Dress up not down for instance no sport team attire, no camouflage style clothes. It took a while to effect but after being turned away the customers began to dress up and a side note there were less or no fights as the folks didn't want to mess up their good clothes

  57. GobbledyGook | August 8, 2013 at 2:45 pm |

    When I was stationed in Kitzingen(1993-1997, 19 y/o when I got there) I always liked when people's wives and daughters dressed trashy. I considered it truth in advertising, and appreciated it greatly. Now that I am a grown-up, and less inclined to chase anything doe-eyed…maybe tell your people to represent properly? If I liked it when I was young and disgusting, it's probably a bad idea. Plus its the rule. Whatta ya gonna do? That's Army life.

  58. For all out there that are offended by what is on the do not wear list, get over yourselves. I can remember things being far more restrictive back in the 80s. This stuff was in effect then and even more. Some may remember the no ear ring thing for males anywhere on base. I had a friend that would take his out right before going thru the gate. There is more to this than meets the eye, some of this is done because it reflects how gangs represent themselves, some is lewd and some is just common sense which is not so common. What the commander is trying to do is set an attitude of professionalism on his post. Your rights are not eroding. You are allowed to dress however you want off post. I say it is more than a privilege to be allowed on base/post, it is an honor. As such, we should set the standard for the rest to follow instead of being the lemmings and crying when we are asked to act like professionals. Though I am not a fan of Chris Rock, one of his acts addressed a woman dressed in a cheap fashion. Her response was just because I dress this way does not mean I am. His response was no you may not be, but you are wearing the uniform. Like it our not, people judge one another based on the way they dress. This commander knows and understands this and is trying to instill pride and professionalism.

    • Navy policy is still no earrings for male servicemembers – it's just not enforced as much as it used to be.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:51 pm |

        …Which is ironic, because men with earrings BEGAN with sailors surviving shipwrecks.

  59. George W. McCormic | August 8, 2013 at 3:11 pm |

    How long will it be before the Commander of Ft Irwin will be forced to back down on his decision. I for one being retired Navy think it is great. It is about time someone layed the law down regarding dress. Nothing perturbes me more than to see someone who dresses like a homeless person or a street walker especially on a military installation. But I guess it is a sign of the times and the times are bad. Danny , you my friend are way out of line, yes you fight to protect freedom, but don't get carried away. If the base commander says this is the way it is, your reply and also your spouse should be aya,aye and carry it out. Your spouse knew when you were married would have to abide by certain rules and regulations by being you spouse, so suck it up junior and live with it. It's not the end of the world. YET

  60. "You can't climb the ladder of success dressed in the costume of failure, every day you get out of bed you dress like your chasing after success not like your only goal was to find month old milk at half-price."

  61. I personally don’t see the problem with the dress code. People should have a little more respect for themselves and others when dressing. The whole pajamas thing out in public is ridiculous. Are you really that lazy you can’t put on real pants? I’m also pregnant and haven’t worn my pajama pants as my regular going out to the store attire. I bought a couple of pairs of maternity stretchy pants that were inexpensive when I could no longer fit into my jeans. I’m not saying you need to do the whole bit and fix your hair and put on makeup but put on normal clothes. I’m also sick to death of the short shorts/skirts. For the price you pay for those scraps of clothing you can afford more material to cover up a little more. That way others don’t have to see you behind hanging out when you bend over. No wonder some ladies get labeled sluts and what not and then have the nerve to get offended. If you didn’t dress like a prostitute you probably would get less of the name calling. The men are no picnic to see with their pants hanging down by their ankles and underwear hanging out either. They look like fools. So overall I yes I can see the positive in this dress code.

  62. My husband and I were stationed on the Marine Corps base in 29 Palms, CA in 1985. There was a dress code then. It is common sense to dress appropriate when you are out in the public . There should not have to be signs and warnings stating that an adult needs to dress properly.

  63. Years back a baseball cap was worn backwards because you were the catcher at a baseball game and your protective face gear would not fit you properly. Nowadays most young people will wear a ball cap backwards thinking they look cool or want people to think they're a thug. Either reason, a ball cap was not made for those purposes. Rules are rules! If you are in someone else's house, you follow their rules.

  64. It is a military post. The commander of the post has every right to impose dress codes. I do however, find the pictures on the posters offensive. There was no need to add pictures to the posters. There are people who do not want their children to see these sorts of things at such a young age. People who want their children to remain as innocent as possible for as long as possible and they should be respected. The writen rules would have been enough. Some of these photos could be considered sexual harrassment where i work (US Postal Service) because sexual hassassment is anything perceived as offensive behavior or print by any person. I would think if the offended parties went to jag and/or a civilian lawyer, they could get the photos removed. Every place in the USA has a dress code.

  65. GySgt Turn | August 8, 2013 at 9:49 pm |

    Madam you fail to realize or understand that on the Military Installation the Commander has complete authority. Much like you do on your own private property. The Military can even deny you the priviledge of not only living on the base but entering it entirely. Even the wearing of civilan clothes off duty, off base by your husband is a priviledge. Your husband signed a contract and for the entire length of time he must honor it, 24-7, You did not, that is true however remember that HE can be punished for YOU disobeying the rules. So by your wanting to act as a rebel you are only hurting his career, paycheck and your own household. These rules have actually probably been in place for a long time just not enforced. On Marine Corps bases they have always been enforced.

  66. Dianna Zerbe | August 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm |

    I believe that if you are on a military installations you should respect others and respect yourself.
    I was on an Air Force Base today and this man had on two pairs of shorts and the second pair hung down the man's butt cheeks. It just looked so nasty! Lord help me JESUS!

  67. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:39 am |

    It honestly disturbs me how few people on here are upset with this and how many actually AGREE with it. Do you honestly like being treated like schoolchildren?

    Banning bandanas? Banning a certain way to wear a hat? Those are both just trying to control a certain fashion that the commander doesn't agree with, it's morally wrong. There is no real reason to ban those things, no logical argument other than "I don't like this particular fashion." Imagine if he had decided to ban hoop earrings or wearing mismatched socks. What if he didn't like jeans and decided to make the whole post "business casual" or decided he didn't like large floppy hats and banned those? Why is banning bandanas and sideways hats alright but not those things? Just because you don't particularly like it or it doesn't effect you?


    • No, the base commander didn't decide he didn't like those things. The uniform board did that. They decided it doesn't "reflect credit on the service or servicemember". Also, those fashions are known gang affiliation indicators. So they don't allow it.
      The base commander just decided, rightly, he was going to enforce the rules.
      We can complain, but we can't change it easily. Forward a suggestion to your uniform board, but expect it to be disregarded unless endorsed by each echelon all the way up.

  68. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:39 am |

    part 2

    For pajamas, who gets to decide what constitutes pajamas? And even if you set strict rules then what is the reason to ban them? Because it annoys people? Women who carry designer purses annoy me because they could have fed many, many starving children for the price of one handbag, does that mean that I should try to get them banned?

    The ban on exposed midriffs and short skirts is sexism and rape culture at it's best. I'm assuming men are not allowed to wear shorts that are too short and are not allowed to go around without a shirt? In any case, who decides how much skin is too much shown? Will there be a committee or will it just be an arbitrary thing up to whoever is power tripping that day? Will we start bringing out measuring tapes again to measure the length from a girls knee to her skirt? And what if someone decides that tank tops are inappropriate? Pants on a woman are outright obscene? Shall we be thrust back into the 50's? I won't write more about this subject as there are many, many better feminists and writers out there and I encourage you to read their works.


    • Tank tops ARE banned in the uniform regs, at least for Navy. It's an old military meme that t-shirts are "underwear", and I've argued with many others over this one. Those who blindly endorse the rules often retort "would you wear your boxers as a hat?", as if a t-shirt as outerwear were anything similar. However stupid, I can't change it and have to enforce it. That applies to crew-neck, v-neck, and a-neck (wife-beaters), as well as tank tops.
      And free expression doesn't belong on base, anyway. The owner of any property has the right to set rules, including abridging free speech. So the base CO has every right to ban this on base. The service has the right to do so. The servicemember and dependents have the right to gripe. That's it.

      • mongolberry | August 11, 2013 at 4:29 am |

        The base CO doesn’t own the post though, he manages it. Because most of the facilities on post are federal government property they follow the same rules as federal buildings, this is in the same vein as some CO’s trying to stop women from breastfeeding In public on base: they cannot even though they try because these are buildings (such as housing, WIC offices, legal, etc) that people HAVE to use (not just choose to use like the commissary or px) there are no alternatives.

        • The CO manages on behalf of the owner, which set the rules. The CO didn't make these rules, just the program to push awareness of and enforcement of those rules. I can't agree with you at all. The base CO is fully within his rights to insist on these regs being enforced.

  69. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:40 am |

    part 3

    Underwear as outerwear? So superman is banned from post? Seriously though, the picture shows a man in an undershirt and I'd love to know how that is any different from a white tank top.

    No revealing undergarments? This is a very open ended rule, it could be interpreted many different ways but I'm assuming it is saying that your underwear cannot be revealed above you pants or shirt. This combined with the "no sagging trousers" rule is another prime example of changing fashions. Each generation seems to be disgusted with the next generations fashions. Women were once thrown in jail for wearing pants, no one liked the full body wind breaker look of the 80's. But it doesn't matter if you don't like it, to ban it is a violation of one's freedom of expression. You are free to wear what you like, even if someone else does not and that is how it should be. There are no literally "fashion police" and that is defiantly a good thing.

    • You are also free to shop off base. You don't like their rules, don't shop there. Right to deny service applies as well.

    • Your missing the point, I think, it is the Base Commanders Base, He is responsible for the good order and discipline of his command and their spouses and offspring. It is his "HOUSE" , His rules, Obey them whether you like them or not, if you don't like them you don't have to shop on base, or at the bases facilities. Go to wallmart,, and perhaps get your picture taken as a wall mart shopper, as for those who want to keep their children innocent, I'm betting they can cus with the best of them, and have seen more then you did at their ages..

  70. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:41 am |

    part 4
    It is not a matter of "if you don't like the rules go somewhere else" there are rules in place, especially in tax funded government buildings, to protect your freedom of expression. If I want to dye my hair and wear leather pants and a rainbow tube top with chains connecting my ear piercing and my nose piercings then I can, if I want to dress in Armani business suits with a perfect bun and only the most fashionable shoes and purses and the most expensive jewelry then I can. People will be offended by both types of fashion and that is ok. That is how society works, you see someone who presents an image that you don't like and you decide not to acquaint yourself with them, you don't try to force them into conformity with what you prefer.

    And for the "torn, cut and worn clothing" that is ridiculous materialism at it's best. If something isn't absolutely perfect it isn't worth having? A person should throw away perfectly good clothing because it is a little worn or has a tear? That is incredibly wasteful.

    • !st amendment doesn't apply on base. Period. You obey, or your sponsor gets punished. Society doesn't get a say.

      • mongolberry | August 11, 2013 at 9:13 pm |

        But that’s the good thing about a democracy, if you don’t like something you can fight to change it. Even in the military, maybe even especially in the military which has such power and control.

        • It's rigged against you. In the Navy, the uniform board will not even deign to read any suggestion unless forwarded and endorsed via chain of command from your unit up to the CNO's office. So a skipper suggesting a new restriction has a good chance of getting his proposal before the board, but a recruit suggesting the elimination of a rule has little chance of his idea even getting up to the next echelon, let alone up to the CNO and before the board.

        • Military services are not, nor can they be, democratic.

    • Torn clothing is not perfectly good clothing.

  71. mongolberry | August 9, 2013 at 3:41 am |

    For some reason my final comment is pending approval by admins…

  72. MSGT Steve | August 9, 2013 at 9:36 am |

    Now can we get the civil governments to 9implement the same standards? I'm seriously tired of seeing women in pajama pants, fat women in short shorts, ugly dudes with armpit hair or the armpits themselves, sagging pants with underwear (or none). The illiterate morons have taken over. It's time we took things back.

  73. I live here at Irwin. I am all for these policies, which, really are nothing new. It has always been a policy for soldiers to be presentable and show professionalism when on post. I have no problem with this being extended to family members. This isn't about not being able to ware your store purchased ripped jeans or your tank top. It's soiled torn pants and undershirts that are prohibited. As for wearing pj's, I personally never found it appropriate for them to be worn out as daily attire. It's just tacky. It's just another things for some wives here to complain about. I say kudo's to the command for implementing these policies. Thanks for bringing some dignity back to our community.

    • Navy uniform regs prohibit ripped jeans, period. Store bought or not, fashionable or not.

  74. With all the issues going on out there the biggest thing they could prioritize is a dress code. When I to go there for a physical 2 years ago I watched a Sgt. harass a PFC who was getting his physical for OCS I witnessed her speak to him in away that was unprofessional and condencending. Why because she was having a bad day. Luckily the SFC I was with yanked her ass aside and checked her. This is not the first time I've seen this at Irwin infact its a common thing. So why doesn't the CSMG fix that issue first.

  75. Common sense goes a long way. If you want to dress like some white trash or some thug wanna be, then fine, do it in the privacy of your quarters. Just because you can squeeze10 pounds of mud into a 5 pound sack, doesn't mean you should wear it.

    It's a govt installation they can promulgate whatever dress code they deem appropriate. If you don't want to follow it, go move into the nearest trailer park.

    There is nothing wrong in showing some personal pride and decorum in your appearance when out in public.

  76. teufelhunden | August 10, 2013 at 9:08 pm |

    Good for the Post Commander, spouses behaviour aboard the post/base is a reflection of the servicemember, i might be an "old salt", but when i was on A.D., my C.O's used to say,"If the Corps wanted you to have a wife, they'd have issued you one". If you were E1/E2/E3, or on your 1st enlistment, you had to go through,financial and marriage counseling, and get "permission" from your C.O, before marriage,

    • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:55 pm |

      I disagree with needing permission to marry, but the military members of my family–all enlisted to officer career men–agree that E1/E2/E3s need financial and marital counseling before going down that path, for many reasons. It isn't a bad plan for civilians to consider, either. Marriage and family is expensive and taxing, and not everyone at that age is ready for it. And when you're military, the military trumps all of that.

  77. teufelhunden | August 10, 2013 at 9:23 pm |

    So,i’m probably going to get burnt on that commentary,but eh, when I married my wife, in 89′ out@ mcagcc29, she understood, after much deliberations, that while on base, she needed to dress and act respectfully, such as during colors, and events, and had no problem with that, yes, it might seem petty, but you signed the contract, and you as a service member are ultimately responsible for your dependants on base behaviour, try trashing a housing unit,see how fast you get tossed., when we left base as single guys, it was ok for plain colored tshirts, and jeans, but tucked in with a belt, and we got checked by the duty nco

  78. There are so many brain washed people here it's sad. This is the first and last time I come to this site. My husband is almost at the end of his long military career, and I am very proud of the fact that I have remained independent and have never been brainwashed. I never wear pajamas, sweats or any clothing that people could object to, but I certainly don't need anyone telling me how to dress. My choice. I'm proud to have remained, independent, and clear thinking.

    • the first mel | August 11, 2013 at 12:17 am |

      Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, follows standards within our society. Would you go into a 5 star restaurant for dinner wearing a bathing suit? Would you go to the store naked? Would you go shopping in a mall barefoot? How is following standards indicative of brain washing? I always find it funny when someone states that they are glad they stayed away from the military community because of how horrible it is. We get insulted and you get to feel superior. Following rules at different places is not brainwashing, it's maturity. It's understanding that you don't always get to do things exactly the way you want to.

    • I am about to retire, and I think independently. I also know when to be quiet about it. Yes, most of these rules are pointless or stupid. But they have every legal right to set them, and they have the power to enforce it. Your thoughtless rebellion does not equate to moral superiority over the service.

      I'll be glad to stop shaving and cutting my hair for a while, because I don't have to follow those rules anymore. But unlike you, I've been well aware of those rules and how hard it is to change. The only way to fight it while you're in, or your spouse is, is to know the rules better than those who enforce them upon you.

  79. teufelhunden | August 11, 2013 at 4:11 am |

    Sorry there to the “guest” who thinks anyone who disagrees with her view is(brainwashed)…but my wife may disagree, her oldest comment, even to my command superiors, was that she outranked them, because she was a civilian, but she showed respect, and unlike to many, she never tried to wear my rank, she was and is,her own person,that is not brainwashed , it is called respect, something sorely lacking with much of the pepsi generation, some of us, that put on the uniform didnt do it for the money, or for the benefits, or even the glory….we did it out of pride, out of love for our country, and we continued to do it for our brothers and sisters in uniform, who became our families, even with low pay and high risks,….brainwashed???…well if thats being brainwashed…count me in sister, could think of worse…,

  80. Lodni Kranazon | August 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm |

    All military & goverment bases and posts should adopt this. Like several people have pointed out, the Navy have enforced stardards for a long time.

  81. People seem to forget, Your on a Federal Military Installation and a guest, You may leave or be ask to leave at anytime for misconduct or failure to comply with rules and regulations.

  82. Using regulations to attempt to change culture rarely works. Passing a law or posting a reg is easy; enforcement becomes subjective and public resentment grows. Instead of subtle encouragements and inspiration for others to conform to a different social norm, the command demands obedience. No wonder that the community at Fort Irwin refuses to participate in community events or social gatherings. This is not "Team Irwin," this is elitism versus the "unwashed masses."

    Clearly not having any rotations this past year has left the head shed with too much time on their hands.

    Debates about "class" and decorum are welcome. But instead of "be like me" and see how enriches your life, instead we simply say "do as I say…or else."

    • Jim in Texas | August 15, 2013 at 5:39 pm |

      It's possible that that is all some understand. Too bad though, as that says something about the audience, and yes it would be nice to be able to treat them to "be like me". I'm afraid that this will lead to 3 or 4 reprimands and a "not compatible" discharges before these service members get the hint that they are in the military.
      "Be like me" works well "down-range" too, it culls those who weren't fit to come to the gang-bang.

    • The commander here is setting a dangerous precedent and could well lose his job over it. I was stationed at Canon AFB, NM, and the commander refused to show the movie "Strip Tease" because it didn't hold with his values. Well, he was fired over it. I'm not opposed to the premise of this dress code. I think that people should dress appropriately when out in public, or face ridicule like on the pages of People of Walmart. But that being said, the commander is crossing lines when he says that athletic gear, yoga pants, flip flops, pajamas, short-shorts and short skirts are banned items, because it's open to interpretation. He is applying his morality and his standards to others. It is classism.

      What if you cannot afford shoes other than flip flops? What if your child was at the hospital all night and your husband is deployed and the pharmacy is co-located at the commissary? What if you are an athletic trainer at the base (most are spouses and don't wear PT uniforms) and go to the commissary to get lunch? How short is too short? Butt huggers? So are all clothing with any types of holes banned, or just jeans with holes in strategic places?

      Further, have any of you actually shopped at the BX lately? Half the crap they sell in that store is the same stuff that's banned! My husband is deployed to an area with general order 1, and one of the orders is no two-piece swimsuits for women. The only female swim suits at the BX are two-piece swim suits?! I went shopping there the other day, much of the clothing is the very clothing in the ban. So is the commander going to command the BX stop shipping banned clothing to the BX? I wonder what the AFEES mafia would think of that. I know that the last time a commander crossed paths with the mafia, he was handed his bird and sent on his way.

  83. Amen!! I find the whole thing ridiculous!

  84. A business/organization can set a dress code. Nobody is forcing you by gun point to shop somewhere.

    It's not any harder to put on pajama pants than it is to put on normal pants, I promise!

    As for the rules about hats and all that, it's related to gangs. I've lived in places where the clubs banned all hats and all solid coloured shirts simply because of gangs affiliations and the potential for fights from that.

  85. Chief Bob Ret | August 12, 2013 at 11:56 am |

    Professionalism is the watchword. We need to act and look like professionals when we are on and off duty. Our dependents also represent the military community so they should conduct themselves accordingly. We are scrutinized more and more and we need to represent ourselves in the best manner possible.

  86. Here's what irks me… A highly paid professional pubilc employee spent A LOT of time and energy on this when he could have been putting those energies into building war-fighting capability and preparedness.

    • Probably some enlisted guy in admin or the pao office got told to do the research and draft the policy for signature, so, I doubt a "highly-paid professional public employee" had anything to do with it.

  87. Love it, love it, love it! The rules have been around for a long time. It's just half the garrisons don't enforce it. The commander does have the authority to decide what will be allowed on post (including dress for family members). The post is not a "public facility" and as such family members have to comply or they can (and should) be asked to permantely remove themselves from the base. I personally am sick of seeing inappropriate body parts, people too lazy to get out of their PJ's or clothing items with obnoxious slogans/sayings. You are on a military base. When you or your spouse signed up this was part of the deal. If you want to look like you fell out of bed or out of the gutter go do it off post! The rest of us don't want to see you like that.

  88. o Doo Rags: Its a visor-less hat with the intention of preventing sunburn on top of the head.
    o Pajamas: Why the control of the material? Its cotton, its comfortable. Why are you only allowing me to wear denim and khaki?
    o Tank Tops: comfortable, light and breaths well in heat. Unless you are seriously unfit or haven't washed the shirt in ages then i cannot agree here.
    o Bathing suits: Are we talking about not at all? My point is most of us enjoy going to the beach and forget one last item that we typically run into a store in our bathing suits to fetch.
    o PT's in PX / Commisary: for some junior grade soldiers, this is their off duty attire.

    I never dress in a tasteless fasion, but if you deny me my choice or regulate my personal time then I will go somewhere else and so will other people too. The Commisary and PX already have a hard time keeping customers because of poor management, bad selection, and price manipulation. So why would you make it more difficult to go there? Some of you need to realize what you are buying into here. There's stupid and then there is Army Stupid.

    • The base commander isn't in business to make a profit for AAFES or DECA. Your arguments mean nothing to him or his superiors. He's just publishing the rules and warning everyone he's making a new push to enforce them.
      You have 2 avenues to attempt change: write DECA & AAFES and tell them they'll lose customers unless the policy changes, and hope they can convince the uniform board to loosen some of the rules (which I agree could stand some major revision), and you can forward your suggestions to the board, but that's not easy.

  89. Don't like the policy, move off base. There, wasn't that easy. Next question?

  90. wow — this is not an infringement on your rights — these dress codes are posted and/or made because there are too many individuals out there dressing like lazy ass pieces of shit on military bases — this is not a public store, it is a military store — so they do have that right to invoke these rules — I am a veteran as well as a veteran's spouse — we had military rules and we had military spouse rules — if you join or marry in be ready to adhere to a different lifestyle — you have the right to go somewhere else to shop and wear what you like, but these rules are not ridiculous — it seems they are just asking people to be presentable — you may not understand all of the requirements, but I assure you there are good reasons and am sure someone out there can give you these reasons i.e. backward or sideways ball caps very indicative of gang wear

  91. Listen to all the whining and crying…most likely from the trailer trash portion of the military. It's a military base not a ghetto and they have every right to set a dress code. Welcome to the military folks! Shape up or ship out!!!

  92. There should be one uniform policy to avoid confusion.

  93. What this article doesn't mention is the gym dress code. No tank tops or sleeveless shirts allowed for anyone. Do they sell Nike & Under Armour at the PX – yes! Can you (off duty soldier, spouse, dependent, civilian…) wear it to the gym – NO! Keep in mind, average summer temps are well into the 100s, but at Fort Irwin, one must put on additional clothing to enter the gym. To add – this policy has nothing to do about modesty!

  94. When I was in the military, a dress code was strictly inforced. On base I wore a military uniforn. Off base I wore a class A uniform or appropriate civilian clothing.
    I personally would like o see the military return to this policy. I'm tired of seeing military personnel wearing field uniforms off base.

    On base the dress code mentioned in this article should be requied on all military bases.

  95. I completely agree with this and wish that it was enforced at more bases across more services. The argument that pregnant woman should be allowed to wear pajamas, well that's why they make maternity pants, skirts and dresses. It is just as east to throw on a casual dress and it is just lazy to say you need to wear pajamas. As a military member or family member you should represent the image of professionalism 24/7. Even if I have to run to the shopette on a Sunday morning I still shower and put on reasonable attire that doesn't include any of the banned items. It is not discriminatory it is cultivating a proud military family that should be setting the example.

  96. RalphKramden | August 13, 2013 at 5:48 pm |

    FACT: YOU WILL SHORTEN YOUR HUSBAND'S CAREER, HURT HIS PROMOTIONS. You are affecting your own life an his job/career with your short-sighted and selfish stubbornness. Too bad your husband has to obey the rules AND listen to you whine.

  97. First of all I don't think anyone should be leaving their homes in their pj's & slippers, thats a big NO NO NO! To me the people that do this are advertising themselves as lazy slobs, which you are. Put on some jeans, t-shirt and flip flops or shoes and go run your errands. I think it's so rude and disgusting. That's just unacceptable no matter if you're military or civilian, biggest fashoins faux pas!!!

    • Flip flops are part of the ban… So are t-shirts (if they are undershirts) and tank tops. If your jeans have holes in them, they are also banned.

      • The original ARTICLE or POSTER says ANYTHING ABOUT FLIP FLOPS. It says HOUSESLIPPERS. Manu of the posters comments mention flip flops. Houseslippers and flip flops are NOT the same thing!

  98. These were common prohibited off duty attire item on the 2 sub-bases I was stationed on in the 80’s and 90’s, Kudos to fort Irwin to reminding the people that live on and use the post that it’s a Military Base.

  99. I don’t want to see some guys boxers or some chicks thong hanging out of the back of their pants. If you bend over and your butt cheeks hang out of your shorts it is nasty. Pregnant or not, pj’s are for HOME, that is why they make maternity clothes. As spouses we are a representation of our active duty spouse and our country looking like trash or a thug when you go out makes a bad impression.

  100. I LOVE THIS!!! We are at Ft. Hood and sometimes it just blows my mind seeing what people wear on Post. I think the courtesy patrol I always see outside the shopette should have the same ID scanner as the gate guards and if you’re wearing something breaking the dress code, they scan your ID card and multiple offenses should have consequences. I am always dressed appropriately. It’s a military base for god sakes! I hope Hood adopts this SOON!!!

  101. No bikinis? What do they wear at the base pool, a burqa? Too much time in the Middle East, folks. What’s next, segregated time for pool usage? (Make sure the fences are very high, and all views are blocked.) Can’t have the men questioning the ladies’ virtue.

    Wearing bikinis at a pool….What has become of our society? What’s next, women demanding the right to drive cars and vote?

    Or don’t they have a base pool?

    • the first mel | August 13, 2013 at 7:02 pm |

      Seriously? Yeah, they can wear bikinis at the pool, but not in the exchange, commissary, etc. SMH

  102. This is great, I would love going one day with out seeing to much skin or worse yet, spouses wearing their husbands uniforms. The US Govt does have a right to tell you what you can and cannot wear, you are representing them, if you look like trash, they believe our Armed Forces are trash. If you don't like it, do not use any of the US Govt facilities, MTF, Commissaries, PX, etc. you can go out on the economy and dress whatever way you like. But family members are also help to a higher standard and you represent your service member.

  103. Where does it end is the problem are they going to tell you that your 5yo has a hole in his pants on the knee so you need to take them home and change them immediately because they just tripped in the parking lot of the store. Or when you are taking spike kids to same day dr apts on post because there that sick then you need to change them out of there pjs seriously. There needs to be a middle ground and it needs to be made from common sense not well some people don't like this that or something else. Because you know one day this issue will be expanded to something that affects you and than you'll say wow that doesn't make sense or seem fair, but by than everyone else will say well you didn't care when it affected me why should I care that it affects you.

    • Why does the military need to compromise for your convenience?

    • Oh please!!! I do think that the people enforcing theese rules know the difference between a five year old KID that fell with a rip in his pants and a grown ADULT wearing torn pants. The same would apply for sick KIDS in PJ's. There is common sense at play here.

      As far as PJ's are concerned, they for sleeping, go into ANY clothing store, where do you think PJ's will be at, certainly not the same department as jeans and pants.

      From a good many of the posters here, I have seen lots of people don't have common sense. It's not alright for children to go to school wearing PJ's, slippers, tight short skirts or shorts, no underwear will be showing, hats, doo rags, EVER! They would be told to change immediately. Children do know the difference. Every school my three children have ever went to have dress codes. All the military installations I have ever be stationed at or lived on have dress codes.

      I'd like to see some of these articles of clothing being worn at some of the dinning establishments on base – the offender would be turned away of the door!

  104. Gary M. Smith | August 13, 2013 at 7:07 pm |

    I think the dress code is "right on"! Hope they hang in there and enforce the code.

  105. At one time fort Irwin had a pornstar living on base who was married to a active duty soldier. I guess the women on base felt they had to compete!

  106. Hey, Danny, I think you should write a letter to your post commander and explain how these rules are cutting into your first amendment rights. Attach pictures of your family members" in the clothes they prefer to wear, (something from the "banned clothes" poster would help make your point). It is possible that the JAG review missed something when they reviewed it.
    Please share the results with us so we will be better informed concerning what we can or cannot do.

    • I think you should do research before blindly following arbitrary rules. The ban is actually racist and classist.

      • Hardly.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 30, 2013 at 3:37 am |

        Classist, quite possibly in this pc, feminazi-ridden day and age. Racist?! Not effing remotely. Everything on that list is worn by people of all different races, except the doo rag.

  107. I wish all our military installations would enforce the dress code policies that are currently in the regulations. The installations are federal property and as such it is a privilege not a right, follow the rules. I remember when I was a child my mother had to be in a dress to go shopping, no pants, no curlers….as family members we must follow the regulations/rules on the installation. Times change, thank goodness, but dressing with class does not. Please feel free to express yourself in your home or off the installation. I for one am tired of seeing body parts that should be covered, not covered. By regulations a lot of the tattoos, body piercing's, fingernails, hair color, hair length…are not allowed ( active duty ) some of those regulations and rules apply to the family members also.

  108. I live in southern CA and, even in the coldest days, I wear jean shorts and a tank top. My bra straps are hidden and my butt cheeks don't show.. I'm 60, after all! My husband was stationed at NAS Fallon in the 80's, when I took our daughter up to visit. We'd had to take a room in town (thank goodness for the casino shuttle!) and I dressed to go over there with him, when he had to tell me "no shorts." I was young then, but my shorts were actually pleated, with a pretty belt (some of you probably remember that look), and they looked closer to a modest skirt than shorts. But, no, the big shot's wife didn't approve!!

    I don't think that any clothes that are decent (and I've been to Ft. Irwin, if I couldn't wear tanks up there, I'd probably end up having to see the doctor) should be prohibited. Plus, unless a rule is enforced, 100% (meaning the entitled officers' wives), it's just not fair. Yeah, who said there was fairness in the military?? But, this is STILL America and I have my views and I'm going to express them.. despite how you closed-minded people here treat ANYONE (i.e. Danny) who dares not to sound like a neo-Nazi (yeah, shaved heads and hate filled tattoos are just fine, aren't they??)!

    • Cat, Danny is a hothead. He seems to think he can just mouth off and say "You can't tell my dependents what to wear", when they do have the power and authority to punish him for their lapses. Were he one of my sailors, I'd be counseling him on tact.
      Yes, there's a lot of nonsense in the regs. No, we can't decide which rules to follow and which to refuse. That's not close-minded. Also, shaved heads used to be banned, because of the skin-head connotation. The military also tries to claim any norse or celtic tattoos are racist, so you're off-base there, too (pun intended).

  109. A professional military requires acceptance of arbitrary standards; there should be no argument. My time in the army (early 70's) required acceptance of arbitrary standards at a time everyone in this country wanted complete freedom and anonymity; we survived and were better for it. Today's service members and thei families need to reflect on the future of the armed services and our country, and to become role models rather than just another dude from the hood or Walmart shopper.

  110. And by the way, it's, 'faux pas.'

  111. So glad that I wasn't pregnant on this military installation…I couldn't have gone anywhere because all I wore was pajama pants. Thankfully Walmart is less strict.

    • Walmart is less strict….that is why so many videos and interesting, funny, gross, weird photos are all over the Internet of the people that shop at Walmart and what they wear or don't wear. I have been pregnant many times, and I was not a little pregnant I was huge.(110 lbs to 185+lbs) all belly. I was tired all the time….I still never went outside shopping in pajama pants, and no I did not spend tons on clothing.

  112. Dress codes do serve a purpose. Why should I be forced to look at someone who has their butt cheeks hanging out or showing their underwear. Or a lady showing off her bottom or breasts. It disruptes a soldiers ability to do their jobs. Not all are off duty at the same time. Dress how you like at home but not while you are out in public. You might not care what people think but inapporpriate dress is just that and in the long run it hurts your future. 15 years from now are you going to want to see your kids dressed as you do or do you want to teach them respect. Children learn from their parents and peers. Just think about it. There was a young boy who walked into a resturant his pants down below his butt cheeks. Would you want to eat there having to look at someone's undies. Not me that is just plain gross. What a way to make someones business fail when people stop shopping because there are those who flaunt their wears for all to see and have no respect for themselves. Maybe the posters are a bit much. It got your attention and rightly so. Put on some clothes! And respect yourselves for a change.

  113. If you don't like the standards of the base facilities, shop Wal Mart … It's let in the clowns there. It has been a long time since i was active duty, but we have standards for the military and their dependents if they wanted to have access to base facilities.Welcome to military life.

  114. ALPHA OMEGA | August 14, 2013 at 12:09 am |

    If dress codes are needed, then why is there no universal dress code for all DOD and then only limited exceptions to these need posting.

    The limited postings then would be an indicator of the base commanders mindset, highly spotlighted and easily rectified from base to base.

    Point to consider: I seldom wear a billed cap but if I do so while driving, it is turned to the back so that I have no interference with my vision of the road. Is it possible that I could be pulled over while driving on fort Irwin for this infraction?

    • Actually there is a dress code for federal employees in the workplace. Whether they are enforced or not is another issue. Federal employees are not supposed to wear athletic clothing, torn clothing, open toed shoes, tank tops, sun dresses, shorts, etc in the workplace. These regulations are posted in the OPM website online, anyone can look it up.

    • If you truly understood the purpose of a billed cap, you'd wear it high enough so that it didn't interfere with your view of the road, and low enough to keep the sun out of your eyes. But since you don't understand this, then YES, a dress code is needed.

  115. They can pass any rules they want for military personnel. And they have to follow them. But they have no business at all telling spouses and children how to dress. Thats complete bull and they should fight it.

    • Not true, they do have the right on a military installation. It is a privilege not a right to be on that installation, different rules apply. Have you seen and read the signs before entering the base, post, …federal property can and usually does have additional rules/regulations for all.

      • I am well aware of the signs at base entrances. But telling a civilian what they can and cant wear is going to far. Not allowing see through clothing is one thing but the pt gear, pajamas even torn jeans is ridiculous. This is just a base commander forcing his personal morality on others and he has no business doing that. Its complete bull.

        • It's "too far" by the way, not "to far".

          You WILL follow the rules of the command or you won't come through the gate. No further discussion is warranted. Follow the rules or forever live on the outside looking in.

    • Sorry, but they do. They have two punishments: They can deny base privilege to the dependent, and they can take the member to NJP.

      • They cant punish a member for the actions of there spouse.

        • No? So attending the NJP of sailors who've been punished for their dependents failure to follow rules never happened? And there's more subtle punishments. One HM1 got told his evals were trashed mostly because his wife was completely bonkers, and they had their kids and dogs taken by Protective Services.

        • You must be a military spouse or never have been associated with the military, because if you're active duty you'd know that the member can be punished for what the spouse does.

          I had a guy who worked for me lose his security clearance because of his spouse's love of spending money they didn't have.

          So yes a military member can be "punished" for the actions of their spouse.. They can deny entry to bases and facilities, revoke overseas screenings or command sponsorship, if they deem it necessary.

          • Do not presume to think you know me. I did serve my country and there is a difference between losing a security clearance to poor credit and to much debt and being disciplined for your wife wearing pajamas to the commisary. Now dont you have some fucking officers nob to slob.

        • They can, and they do. You need to get out more. You're in for a lifetime of discomfort if you don't pick up on the rules.

  116. Agree with new policy, the posters need to change. They have posters similar (less offensive) in Okinawa. However, the posters in Fort Irwin are offensive. Hopefully, they enforced the policy, because in Okinawa you see Japenese girls dressed with micro mini skirts, high heels and see thru blouses, and no one says anything. You see them in the commissary, PX, shoppette, and even at work dress inappropriate. It’s part of their culture; however, when they married a active duty personnel. They should enforce the rules but they don’t.

  117. They should have a policy for the soldiers at FT Eustis. which I’m sure they do but they don’t enforce it. The younger soldiers and some older ones where reveling clothes. They dress worse then some civilians of the base. And there attitudes aren’t any better. My 3 year old is at that stage where she repeats what she hears. She over heard a soldier tell another soldier that she was gonna make him her b***h… so then she tells me that she is going to make me her b***h. When I said something to the soldier she laugh and said how cute. This is what the Army let in to represent us!!!!!! So sad

  118. Oh… So you are not allowed to dress like a complete idiot? Fort Irwin. Doing things right for a change.

  119. I absolutely agree, it should happen off post as well.

  120. If you don't like it… move into Walmart to fit in with the rest of your "kind"! Have a little respect for the people that DIED for your freedoms! You are free to look like a bag of trash anywhere you want, are you really selfish and ignorant enough to do it on an military installation where the people who have the GUTS to sign their life away to give you those right work and live?

    Quit crying about it! Those rules were in place long before these "styles" came along… if that's your style, more power to you… just do it OFF POST!

    • I have read alot of bad postings about Wal Mart here. Wal Mart isokay depending on which one and where it is located. After I finish my grocery shopping at the commissary, my next stop is Wal Mart. Why you may ask, well, the commissary in my area is pretty small and doesn't carry many of the items that I want. It also has meat and produce that is not fresh. The Wal Mart I go to is very big, very clean and I have yet to anyone dressed trampish or thuggish. Just saying…

  121. Remember you are still a representative of the military in and out of uniform and expected to dress as such and if you married a service member you and your family are taking on that responsibility. So suck it up buttercup

  122. I agree with the dress code reform, it was about time someone had the courage to implement this rules for those that need a little help getting dress before leaving the house, pregnant women no exceptions!

  123. First, let me start by saying I always get dressed before leaving the house. I do not own pajama pants. I brush my hair and wear real shoes (as long as Vibrams count as real shoes). As an American citizen and also a military spouse, I have a few issues with these regulations. I am not familiar with Fort Irwin, so all of my information is coming from the above article. It sounds like if you are stationed there, you pretty much have to live on post. And in order to be on post, you have to follow these dress code rules. So, if you want to live with your spouse who is assigned, with no choice of their own, to this post, you must abide by these rules.
    I understand the ideas behind the ban on visible undergarments that allow too much skin to be seen. I get the no swimsuits thing. I also get the no workout uniforms in public unless you’re actually working out. That’s sort of a hygiene thing, I would expect. The underwear as outerwear needs more clarification. My husband wears a Hanes tee shirt under his uniform. Does that mean I am prohibited from wearing a crew neck tee shirt because it is “underwear”. It literally is "underwear" for his uniforms. What about a tank top like the one pictured? I understand that the one pictured is sold as an undershirt, but I also own women’s tank tops that have the exact same shape, but with a deeper cut neckline and this is sold as “outerwear”. Who clarifies the difference and is there a demonstrable difference?
    I do not agree with the pants sagging ban, because really it is just a style. If that person was wearing sweatpants or colorful boxers underneath and removed their pants completely, they would be left wearing sweatpants (not indecent) or colorful shorts (also not indecent). The stigma we attach to the attire is not based on anything visibly indecent, it is our perception of the clothing. What is the difference between boxers and cotton shorts? Nothing. I personally think the sagging pants style is ridiculous looking, but it's not indecent because skin is not being shown. A thong showing above the pants also, in my opinion, looks ridiculous, but as long as the body parts are covered, it should not be indecent. Now, since the post is declaring midriffs indecent, the thong peeking out would be considered indecent unless the wearer decided to put it OVER her shirt, which would be hilarious to see.
    The pajama pants raise a similar concern. What exactly are "pajamas"? A loose shirt and baggy pair of pants with elastic at the waist? So would any baggy pair of pants or very loose shirt be considered pajamas? What if you wore a shirt you bought in the "pajama" section, but it was well fitted? Is someone checking tags? And what exactly are “houseshoes”? I’m from the Midwest, I am unfamiliar with this term. Does this mean only slippers? Or does it include flip flops and Crocs or any slip-on shoe?
    The ban on slanderous statements, drug paraphernalia, sexually suggestive statements all have a fairly well understood meaning and aren’t open to too much interpretation. These are understandable bans. Obscene and vulgar are less defined and need some clarification. A Congresswoman was accused of vulgarity when she used the medically accurate and relevant v-word (vagina) in a debate about abortion. So we obviously need to set some guidelines for what is considered obscene and vulgar, and the why behind the branding would be very interesting to read about.
    The ban specifically on words on clothing that disagree with the military or government is particularly disturbing. It reeks of propaganda, or at least the beginnings of it. I understand that military members' political voices are limited to an extent, but to also quash the free speech of civilians in order to uphold “decorum” is truly terrifying. This rule specifically targets people who are making a statement of dissent. If we allow some civilians to have their freedoms of speech to be trampled on, we open the door for more and more of the same. These people living on post are first and foremost, American citizens. We rail against the governments that quiet their citizens' dissent and then quietly allow it here at home? At the same time, we send the husbands and wives of those we are silencing off to die in a foreign land defending the citizens there and giving them the freedoms we "enjoy" here. Scary stuff, indeed. The first right in the Bill of Rights is the Freedom of Speech.
    And I'm with Danny – being appalled – at the number of people who embrace this policy and wish is went further – to ban certain haircolors? Wow, talk about giving up personal freedoms. That's a whole other level.

    • You didn't even mention the doo rag ban! That's actually racist. And people are encouraging this. I'm with you.

      • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:09 am |

        Thank God I am not the only one who thinks a good chunk of this list is just purely racist. I shared this in two other groups. On my Facebook where we all are college educated adults and in a LinkedIn group for Organizational Leadership…pretty much a 90%agreement that a good deal of "the ban" is in fact racist/classist. Its interesting to see how people outside the pod see it…

      • I did consider the doo rag ban, and even started a paragraph about it, but I'm uncertain is classifying doo rags as a racial style is, in itself, racist. My family has owned a motorcycle shop since before I was born and I see bikers wearing doo-rags frequently as a method to control long hair while riding (No helmet law in IL). Are handkerchiefs considered banned with the doo-rags, since they can be worn in an identical fashion? Definitely need more clarity as to the "why" of this. At the bare minimum, I have to agree with you, it is classist.
        I think also politcally motivated. What if I want to wear a shirt that protests a war? Banned. Why? Because no one is allowed to display an opinion other than what the Commander perceives to be correct? I think that smells like a regime tactic.

    • Hair color ban was for active duty while in uniform…ie pink hair, green, purple…not dependents. Active duty can use temporary color that washes out while not in uniform. Some public schools have rules about children's hair color, other businesses have rules about clothing, body ornamentation,…no shirt no shoes no service…

      • This isn't about hair color. Google doo rags, and you'll see their use. There is no reason for the commander to ban such a thing.

      • This is true. You can't go to the gas station without a shirt and shoes on. But they do not tell you which styles of shirts and shoes are appropriate. As long as your private bits are covered up and you can't spread foot fungus on the floor or step on something and sue them, whatever, they don't care. There is no demonstrable difference between a pair of pajama pants and a pair of pull on slacks. I've never seen a business that will not serve you solely because you have "body ornamentation" on of which they disapprove. I've seen businesses not hire someone because of a lip ring or eyebrow piercing or some such, and that is perfectly within their right, which is also a policy of the military. But they do not extend such a policy to the members' families.

        I understand why people would want other people to dress appropriately. That would be awesome to have everyone looking nice and well dressed in public. But that's not up to the government to decide, not even if your spouse or parent has joined the military.
        Nightclubs (back when I was 21, it's been awhile) banned certain types of clothing but it was related to gangs and an attempt to reduce violence. This I can understand. There is no demonstrable benefit to making the bans that I've outlined above other than, "well, it looks nicer". But there's no real, tangible difference. If you don't like it, don't look.
        Maybe I'm over-thinking because I do not live "on base" and rarely go there for shopping. I'm the Ombudsman for my husband's command and occasionally meet with the CMC and, rarely, the CO. I have never witnessed people actually wearing the things above on base, but all "military housing" in San Diego that I have seen is "off base" except the Officers Country. So perhaps my views are limited by my exposure to military on base housing. But I've been a citizen all my life and I've paid close attention to my rights and responsibilities as an American citizen.

  124. Tell your husband He better get out at the end of this hitch, He'll end up paying for Your mouth.

    • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 10:02 am |

      You sum up exactly my sentiment as well.

    • "I know when to hold my mouth."

      Really? Read your own stuff…

    • ProperNavyWife | August 29, 2013 at 6:30 pm |

      I believe she mentioned earlier she was once upon a time an officer, but not a good one, and that's why her husband is the one still in. Sadly, if she killed her career already, I doubt she cares much for his.

  125. Navy…I can remember "way back when" I made the mistake of going on base in a T shirt. The Marine gate guard had me pull over and put me on report. I asked if it would be OK to go back home and change. "Sure". Made a U turn, stopped for the Marine on that side, and waited about a minute or so while they argued about putting me on report for going ON liberty in a T shirt…..My Leading Chief thought it was hilarious, and said don't do it again…….

  126. As usual there are a lot of comments from misinformed people here..just for fun..lemme say..on post we DO INDEED pay taxes..they snuck it in ..:() to This topic: the dresscode IS in my opinion extreme..backward hats..really??we have dress codes on our base that are just WRONG..they see through shirts..they’re sold at the px on base..mixed message much..torn jeans..they’re SOLD THAT WAY and whatever nimrod came up with the soldiers can not enter in their pts needs to rejoin the military at the BOTTOM aNd see how THEY like stressing over trying to rush SOMEWHERE to scarf something down(don’t wanna eat BEFORE pt!)then rush home (if you’re lucky) or to your car or your barracks or wherever you get to change so you can try to get back to an after pt formation before you get in deep trouble..pts are an official uniform and should not EVER be discriminated’s CRUEL.There are some dress code rules that should be enforced..again in MY opinion..and they’re common SENSE ;)if i see your undies..that’s a problem..don’t walk into any establishment anywhere in nothing but a bathing suit..pretty simple..the rest os just silly..says this army wife anyway..;)..:(

  127. As usual there are a lot of comments from misinformed people here..just for fun..lemme say..on post we DO INDEED pay taxes..they snuck it in ..:() to This topic: the dresscode IS in my opinion extreme..backward hats..really??we have dress codes on our base that are just WRONG..they see through shirts..they’re sold at the px on base..mixed message much..torn jeans..they’re SOLD THAT WAY and whatever nimrod came up with the soldiers can not enter in their pts needs to rejoin the military at the BOTTOM aNd see how THEY like stressing over trying to rush SOMEWHERE to scarf something down(don’t wanna eat BEFORE pt!)then rush home (if you’re lucky) or to your car or your barracks or wherever you get to change so you can try to get back to an after pt formation before you get in deep trouble..pts are an official uniform and should not EVER be discriminated’s CRUEL.There are some dress code rules that should be enforced..again in MY opinion..and they’re common SENSE ;)if i see your undies..that’s a problem..don’t walk into any establishment anywhere in nothing but a bathing suit..pretty simple..the rest is just silly..says this army wife anyway..;)..:(

  128. Robert House | August 14, 2013 at 10:38 pm |


    That contract you spoke about. The military I.D. card the spouse uses to purchase the goods from the Government facilities gives the Government authorities (the base commander) the right to prescribe
    appropriate attire in that facility. For my part, I wish we could have the same dress code for all civilians.
    I detest seeing a 30 year old with his pants down and his shorts showing……just one example. Dressing like a jailbird/prisoner or thug or rap singer is sick!! I'm a retired Navy Senior Chief, but I'm an older guy and I still would like to see regulations such as this enforced. I LOVE IT. But, I have to say, in today's environment of PC, I'm afraid someone up the chain of command will change this. Let's hope not.

  129. They should have been military base back in the 60's and 70's it was a lot different then it is now.

  130. RSE - Navy Veteran | August 14, 2013 at 10:53 pm |

    it's a military base an codes, rules and regulations apply, it's that simply, Yes it is a different way of Life …………..

  131. I am in full agreement. I wish the same rules would apply nationwide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Retired Army..

  132. Before Obama and his anti Constitution agenda, I would have agreed with pretty much ALL of this. However, since Obama's push to override almost every aspect of our Constitution I now disagree with the idea of how the military is able to tell me what I can where on off time. Yes I know, as soldiers we are on duty 24/7/365. However, how much further and in what direction do we continue to let the supposed CIC dilute our Constitution? No doubt, as SM we give up many rights the day we sign the dotted line, but IF the military cannot enjoy the freedoms our Constitution gives us, how do we put our lives on the line in defense of our Constitution that MANY want to trample upon?
    Myself, I'm sick of it.

  133. When I was Active we always dressed in a way that was respectful and inline with the Base dress code. To day to many want to wear what is in style. You joined the Military now act like a Military man and family or get out.

  134. if you don't like the dress code then don't go to the base. the CO has the responsibility for public relations in the community and keeping the military installation looking like a military installatiion. i could not agree more and give the base CO kudo's for having the integrity to do the right thing.

  135. 30 yr Army Retired | August 15, 2013 at 12:24 am |

    NO jojo, the reason the chow hall will not let the violin come in is not to keep him from sneaking food out it is to keep others from sneaking bombs in. You have any idea how much devastation would be caused by a violin case or a backpack full of C4?? And like others have stated, if you don't like the rules, leave. No one is forcing you to go on base or stay in the military for that matter.

  136. I think this should be for every post Nation wide. I am a spouse and I am so tired of seeing other spouses dress so inappropriate and even soldiers. This is why the Military have a bad name. If you can't get dressed to go to the store don't go. PJ's are for bed not for shopping pregnant or not. It's just plain LASY….

  137. This is a military installation! Follow the rules or GTFO!

  138. CWO4USNRRET | August 15, 2013 at 1:55 am |

    How is the catcher on a baseball team supposed to put on his mask without turning his ballcap around backwards? This is the ONLY part of the rules I disagree with.

  139. This exact same poster has been all over at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii since at least 2008 and no one has cried about it.

  140. Those that have an issue with this policy must understand that you are on a Federal/Military Installation where those freedoms of speech and what is accepted in this ever downtroden society is accpeted, does not apply here. The military has for years been an organization that promotes decipline, respect and professionalism. We all know that your outward appearance is something that is judged whether we want to admit or not. I have children who were raised on multiple military installations and the Commander is correct is insuring that this type of dress is not allowed. I never allowed any of it in my house or within my eye sight. This policy should be adopted DOD wide and just maybe it will instill in our kids and young adults will learn to respect themselves as well as others. We as adults are supposed to be preparing our kids how to be productive members of society but this type of dress does nothing toward that goal. It only shows them that whatever they want to do is OK, which leads to a deadend.

  141. You are right Danny. No one can tell you what to wear on post. One condition though, give up that Government issued ID card that grants you so many privileges including the right to be on that post. Don't like it? Then go be a civilian and wear whatever demeaning crap you want.

  142. Canton Hall | August 15, 2013 at 7:33 am |

    I have to say, the "short/skirts" and the "swim suits" pics are quite nice. I wouldn't mind seeing them hanging around the base. Funny thing is, they can hang those pictures up around the installation at will, but I can't hang a picture of an attractive and tastefully posed SI Swimsuit model (swimsuit included of course) at my desk.
    Maybe I can just get a couple of copies of this dress code poster and hang them in my cubicle.

  143. Michael Kelly | August 15, 2013 at 7:47 am |

    Army manners of dress have always been regulated, if not specifically imposed and enforced. I retired 26 years ago and the Army regulation back then, as it is now, was AR 670-1. When I was active it was not necessary to to flood a post with posters with specific examples of improper public dress. The unit bulletin board maintained by the unit commander was all that was necessary to implement uniform Army standards and reading the unit bulletin board at least once weekly was required by all soldiers. Everyone back then seemed to understand without specific posters or orders what was customarily good public manners and specific orders with specific examples were not necessarily required. With the 'anything goes attitude' of today I have only one question: "What are commanders and Army leaders supposed to do under orders to implement and enforce Army standards, which are obviously necessary in a 'uniformed environment'?" "Wait until obvious violators begin parading around post completely naked and weirded out from weird music or 'only God knows what' before acting to implement and enforce necessary community standards?"

    P.S. And as far as the comment goes from one lady about PJs, I really don't think that if the PJs are otherwise conservative or modest that any commander or leader is going to take issue with a pregnant woman that is late-term heavy with child, unless "Common and Good Sense" are totally gone from everyone now in military service. But I do wonder what was going on at Fort Irwin that the post commander decided it was necessary to implement a specific examples poster campaign. I know how hot it gets at Fort Irwin in the summer season and how people like to dress lightly in such heat, but do people need be reminded that Fort Irwin is a pre-combat training base and not a public resort?

  144. the backwards hat crap is just someones pet peeve. the same crap they did in korea, area 1….2nd ID. the command needs to focus on real problems and stop wasting tax money on posters like this

  145. You live on a military base which is a privilege, not a right. You WILL obey the rules or lose that privilege.

    • What you think, honestly or dishonestly, really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things. The military does not operate on concensus, albeit. Air Force pukes "go to work with Bob, Bill, and Tony. The military services do their duty with Colonel Jamison, SFC Billingsly, and PO2 McGraff.

  146. Is it over the line to expect people to dress like adults!?!? This is the PX/BX/Commissary not walmart…you want to be trash and look like trash don't come on post!!! All services offered on post are privileges not rights!!

  147. I wonder if they stop, face the music and salute the flag at retreat? or is that an infringement of their rights?
    They did volunteer…

  148. Really? You have seen this? I doubt it. Now you're just being stupid.

    • *hateful

      • These dress codes are not meant as a punishment. I have been 9 months pregnant and dragging 3 extra kids out with me early in the morning or even later in the evening. I refuse to go out in my pajamas unless I’m staying in the vehicle. When I go out anywhere on base I’m also representing my husband. Especially if I happen to run into anyone he works with. I know I would be embarrassed to be seen dressing like a bum. I take pride in myself. Maybe it was because I was active duty as well.

      • These dress codes are not meant as a punishment. I have been 9 months pregnant and dragging 3 extra kids out with me early in the morning or even later in the evening. I refuse to go out in my pajamas unless I’m staying in the vehicle. When I go out anywhere on base I’m also representing my husband. Especially if I happen to run into anyone he works with. I know I would be embarrassed to be seen dressing like a bum. I take pride in myself. Maybe it was because I was active duty as well, but I refuse to go out in public not dressed right.

  149. What’s funny is this is nothing new. These type of ‘rules’ were in place up through the mid/ late `80s. The enforcement seemed to fade as installations stopped checking IDs at the entry points to the various buildings, i.e.: Exchanges, PX, AAFES, dining facilities, Commisarries, etc. I can remember as a kid (dependent of the `60s & `70s) not being able to enter any of these while under age 10 unless escorted by a parent. In the late `80s my wife was turned away at the Exchange entrance because her shirt came to her pants waist, but not past it. I say it’s about time the services start instilling a bit of pride and professionalism back into its’ service members. And as for family members…as already posted above…if you don’t like it, don’t patron the estblishments! It’s just that easy.

  150. I am absolutely for this, barring the PT uniform, We (including our spouse/significant other) should set a positive proffesional image. This is just a part of what makes our military great. Good job CC and Sgt Major!

  151. Mrshowell51 | August 15, 2013 at 9:42 am |

    Pajama pants because you are pregnant? I never once wore pajama pants out of the house when I was pregnant. I was raised so much better than that! Thank you, Mom!

    • I also wore maturnity clothing when I was pregnant. Now a days, I see pregnant ladies wearing regular clothes stretched so tightly across the belly and rearend area – really quite gross looking in my eyes. Guess they don't want to spend any money on maturnity clothes.

  152. I have read alot of postings that mention flip flops, however, nowhere in the article and the poster does it actually mention flip flops. It mentions "houseshoes" which are NOT flip flops. Lots of folks posting here feed off of each others posts without regard to what the article actaully said.

    I am in complete agreement with the article. It should be implemented on ALL military bases.

    People NEED to be policed, if not we all would be running around doing whatever we want.

    And yes, to comment on a post from sabrincking, there are much bigger fish to fry , like the war. I have read many posts from you and I am assuming that you and your family have been deeply touched by the war. BUT, there are still many many base that are not in the war zone and things in these environments still need to be governed, such as dress codes.

    It does not take an educated person to follow rules. It takes people who understand WHY rules are established to begin with.

    • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:25 am |

      It was stated in one of the original comments that "flip flops" were banned in the commissary somewhere…its stemming form that comment.
      On your second point, this is why I disagree. I don't think the intent of these rules…which was stated as increasing discipline as the forcer returns to garrison life…actually works. I think its an ill informed fundamental misunderstanding of human psychology…especially that of the 30 year old on down crowd. That's why I disagree with it.

    • People don't need to be policed. If you understand psychology or fundamental child rearing. People live up and down to expectations. if you have high expectations of people they will exceed your expectations, if you have low expectations, then they will have exceedingly low standards of behavior. You get more work and more compliance out of people by not being directive and authoritarian. That doesn't mean that you give up command authority to get things done, it just means that if you give your troops enough rope to barely hang themselves they will usually exceed your expectations.

      • I guess I didn't use the correct word when I said policing, maybe I should have used a different word. However, I don't think the use of a different work would have made any difference in your comment.

        I don't agree with you, if there are rules, we are supposed to obey the rules. Rules are rules no matter what my expectations are. I can protest, sign petitions, picket or whatever, don't think that any of these behaviors will change the rule that has been around for many many years. It does show that we all have different opinions.

        We are not talking about the workplace here jojo13, we are talking about shopping at the exchanges and commissaries.

  153. 64DWhiteFamily | August 15, 2013 at 10:16 am |

    It is about time. Over 20 years ago when I joined, this was not an issue. YOU WORE APPROPRIATE CLOTHING ON BASE. Now with the kinder gentler military, we get to deal with "this". NO, YOU ARE NOT OFF DUTY…….. YOU ARE ON DUTY 24/7. You may not be at work, but YOU ARE ON DUTY.

    IF YOUR WIFE (SPOUSE) DOESNT LIKE IT… TO DAMN BAD. The military base if for military, dependents are offered an opportunity to live with the military.

    If you don't like it, move off base and enjoy life with all the other delinquents who feel it is their right to show the world their asses.

  154. sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 10:32 am |

    Here's my final thought on this. Some of his list is out and out racist. Period. And I am not black, and I dress very conservatively. If this list had cowboy hats, big belt buckles, Wranglers so tight you probably need a cream for that, etc. You'd throw a hissy fit. I don't think anyone objects to decorum. I don't think anyone objects to people not wearing gang paraphernalia et all, and nobody wants to see anyone's wife walking around 1/2 naked at the commissary. Roger, got it. But half of this list has absolutely nothing to do with any of those things and is really…really…about class and wanting people to conforms to the norm of your social class. That's sort of ridiculous in 2013. At the end of the day the Army has bigger fish to fry and this sort of entrenchment to status quo…never, it never works in Organizations. It just never holds over long term. You can argue that all day, but you'll be wrong.

    • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 11:05 am |

      And just a note of caution, from someone who does HR for a living, this whole…no soft skills "do as I say because I say so"…telling people who they ARE, not how to perform their work…is 9 times out of 10 why people have a hard time transitioning to the civilian workforce. Just, something to chew on.

    • This is the military. You will conform or you'll find yourself miserable until they kick you out. Then you can go look like a classless slob to your little heart's content.

      Here's a news flash: Cowboy hats, big belt buckles and tight jeans are NOT reflective of a violent culture in this country.

      You're the racist for calling it racist.

      • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:14 am |

        Actually…as a Native American I gladly disagree with you. I find anyone dressed up like a wannabe cowboy…very reflective of a VIOLENT culture.

      • Boboe– I'm a Native American-White middle class chick. It is racist. My dad was a barber in a largely African American community. Doo rags are not gang symbols. They may not look nice by white folk standards, but it is a tool to ensure hair remains neatly braided, flat ironed, or wavy. AA hair is naturally coarse, difficult to work with, and hard to maintain. The doo rags keep the hair neat, and moisturized.

      • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:49 am |

        However…I am this thing called a rational adult…and I don't walk around in my life dictating to other people how they dress. This is the difference here. Rational people don't attempt to dictate to others how they dress, because rational people aren't offended by how different cultures choose to dress from their own. Only irrational people are so grossly threatened by other cultures. Its not the Borg, its the Army. Your "you must assimilate" line is really humorous.

  155. If you are living on post, then you have to bye by their rules It's a government post and it's a privilege to live on post. When my wife and I lived on post, I was responsible for her and my children's action and dress code. Remember that you join the service ( Husband or Wife ) and sign you name on the doted line and no one broke your arm to do it ! I remember the days when a wife stepped out the house in hair curlers. It was a big no no ! If reported by an MP, the DR went to your CO. and he took action. There was a lot of respect in those days. Time has change and respect is something else.

  156. While I don't personally like some of how I see our young people (in and out of the military) dress, what I find interesting is that the US Army (and probably the other services as well) has to even be bothered with "teaching" and enforcing a dress code. This is something that should have taught by your parents long before you joined the military…… Another example of the generational dumbing-down happening in our great nation………..

    • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 1:22 pm |

      Actually…you should look up the Flynn effect. Statistically IQs are on the rise, decade over decade. I think its a misnomer, which leads to a fundamental leadership misunderstanding…that the population is dumbing down. Its not actually, the population statistically is getting more intelligent year over year. Its also statistically true that the more intelligent the person, the less likely to conform to social pressure and the more likely to be libertarian minded. So…academically speaking then, I think what you witness is not a dumbing down of anyone…its the smarter people get, the less likely they are to want to be told what to do. As people in other socioeconomic groups get better education, healthcare, and nutrition those collective IQs rise, they are less easily controlled and therefore you have intrinsic societal clashing of which social norms in dress, speech et all are acceptable. Control, is the issue here. And people with higher IQs are much less likely to want to be controlled…and this…is what you are seeing.

      • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:16 am |

        You should really use these things called FACTS to support your arguments.

      • I don't think that I see higher IQ's when shopping at either the exchange or commissary. I see people just shopping. I personally don't want to see other people's body parts, but who am I to tell them to cover it up, that is up to the Base Commander if they see fit to do so.

        I don't really see a higher IQ sect in the military either. The only thing required to enlist is a high school education and maybe a good ASVAB score.

        I am not college educated, but I don't dress like any of the pictures in the banned poster. I spent 20 years of my life on active duty , 15 of those years married to another active duty member, been stationed many different places and interacted with many differenct cultures. That doesn't mean that my IQ is either higher or lower than others using the base facilities, it just means that I shop there.

    • sabrinacking | August 15, 2013 at 1:23 pm |

      This is extremely evident when managing the young tech crowd, who also love to listen to their heavy metal music, pierce and tattoo themselves everywhere and are very outspoken. It has nothing to do with being dumbed down, and everything to do with not wanting to be controlled which correlates to a higher, not dumb downed IQ.

      • As someone with an IQ of 170, and a military veteran, and with 40+ years in the technology field, the typical member of the "young tech crowd" is lazy, loud, and not terribly smart.

        • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:12 am |

          Absolutely untrue.

          • So, because you like to feel smarter than your folks, anyone not supporting a protest against these regulations is stupid and racist. Anyone into self-expression is a libertarian genius.
            Sorry, I don’t buy your bullshit, and saying “absolutely untrue” does not invalidate the “lazy, loud, and not terribly smart” observation.

          • ProperNavyWife | August 30, 2013 at 3:31 am |

            Absolutely true. The "young tech crowd" generation, and my generation are lost in a "me me me" self-absorbed fog, rude and horrifically lazy. Why is this? They were taught they were all "special" and that they deserved the best…but never taught to EARN it. Their parents decided they wanted to be their child's friend and not a parent, and never taught appropriate respect. For ANYONE, or anything. Everything is disposable and soon to be replaced with the next great toy. And the majority of them are indeed poorly educated and not the brightest bulbs in the box. What, exactly, are you learning in your Master's Program? It sounds so off that it makes me wonder if you're getting it from one of those for-profit nonsense schools.

  157. RETIREDAFNURSE | August 15, 2013 at 1:28 pm |

    It's unfortunate that commanders have to list and identify offensive dress in public, but more unfortunate is that people actually think that such dress is acceptable! Pajama pants and slippers in public? No- regardless of whether you're pregnant, had had recent surgery, just need to run in to the PX, etc. The fact that buildings are allowed to refuse entry/service to anyone sporting the banned looks is a testament to the fact that respect and decorum are expected of all military personnel and their families. It has nothing to do with income, race, or freedoms. I was born and raised in a public housing project in Baltimore, and am black. It's about judgement; you won't get the respect you deserve if you dress trashy. It hurts others' eyeballs, too…

  158. Did any of you complaining:

    A. READ the forms before you signed them to VOLUNTARILY join the military?
    B. LISTEN to the instructors when you were in Basic Military Training School, your life is not your own any longer?
    OR Officer Training School, you will enforce the rules & regulations of the installation to which you are assigned?
    C. LISTEN to how you are responsible for your family's/dependants' conduct, to uphold the respectful image of the military both on AND off the installation, regardless of the society's newest dress fads or attitudes?

    And lastly, arguing with a fool is only going to make you one too, because a fool will not see the correctness of the issue.

  159. Old Dragoon | August 15, 2013 at 2:48 pm |

    On post, live by the military's rules. Off-post, feel free to look like a bum or tramp… In any case, quit your whining.

  160. I think it about time the world wakes up and realize that everyone does not care to see your sloppy dress. You must remember that the base is U. S. property and that they don't even have to let u on the base. They did not enlist u, It was the active duty individual that they want. It is a privilege for u to use the base facility. shape up or go elsewhere…….

  161. Apparently this place is a circle-jerk. Any opinion that speak out against the policy are down-voted into oblivion…

    • Yep, don't you know that wives need to be put in their place, and we don't have any opinions that matter, and that the commander is well within his rights, and he should not be questioned about this new policy and how horrible it truly is…

      • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:18 am |

        JoJo apparently we missed our last ration of KoolAid…I think mine wore of somewhere are 16 years….I am probably well over due for some more….baaaaaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaa, baramu baramu…to your flock, to your tribe…sheep be true…baramuuuuuuu.
        It's on one hand hysterical and on the other just truly tragic.

        • Of course I'm trailer trash, and my husband should dump me before I completely destroy his career by saying such things as a ban on doo rags is racist.

          • sabrinacking | August 16, 2013 at 8:56 am |

            Me too…atleast you're an officer's wife and allowed to speak at all….lmao

          • No I'm not, remember, I will ruin his career with my big mouth and trashiness. They are surprised he kept my arse around for 16 years.

    • If you don't like the policy, don't come on post. That's the extent of your options. Deal.

  162. Excuse me for all of you whining you need to put a cork in it. For the outsiders who don't know butt out, but for you wives you need to get your head out, you're not at home anymore with Mom and Dad, have some respect for yourself. I gave the Air Force 20 and what got me amongst all the services is how wives let themselves go and look like hell. Get it right your spouse signed a contract to represent and when you married them, they should've informed you before you said "I do" these are the rules that you will have to adhere to as a military spouse. It's policy, been there for decades, so fall in line otherwise get the hell out. Your military spouse can be court martialed for your behavior just in case you didn't have a clue. Case in point, my son is stationed at Irwin and how he dresses is his business but when he comes through my door, that pants aren't hanging, no earrings or cap on cockeyed cause he knows I have no problem in using my size 10's up his backside to get the picture correct..

  163. Military installations are cities within themselves. As for Danny, you need to spellcheck, before shooting your mouth off. Uncle Sam pays you and your spouse and if you don't like it, get out and go find another job. There have always been dress codes. People just don't care anymore. Take pride in the uniform that you wear, and inform your wife that she should take pride in the uniform that you wear. Would you want her dressing like that if you were deployed? It is the military's right, and if you want to make waves, they can always dismiss you.

  164. You should NEVER wear PJs to the grocery store. Take some pride in how you dress and have some modesty. When you make Chief in the Air Force they send you to classes to learn etiquette and dress codes. I think that is funny, they really should send new soldiers and new spouses. You have a responsibility to your spouse and the military. And yes, you are on a military installation, so rules can be enforced. People see the Walmart photos on Facebook – do you really want to risk being the next one posted? And the pregnancy thing is not an excuse. There are lots of options out there. If you want freedom to dress how you like, then move off base or get out of the military.

    • How is wearing tank tops, athletic gear, yoga pants, flip flops, all ripped jeans, and undershirts offensive enough to garner a spot in "People of Walmart." Surely people who dress at those extremes should be banned, but the people who are in favor of this dress code should actually read it, and do research on what exactly is being banned.

      For example, doo rags, do you know what purpose they serve other than being a gang symbol? Do you know that they make it so coarse African American hair is manageable?

      Example, athletic gear. Tank tops are banned at the gym, did you know that? In a base where the average summer high temperature is well above 100 degrees, it is "illegal" to wear tank tops at the gym while working out. The base commander would probably faint at the number of women in my crossfit gym on base who are in sports bras and booty shorts.

      This policy lacks complete common sense. Everyone knows that there should be some decorum when going to activities on base, or going to special events, but we are talking about going to commissary, pumping gas at the shopette, and going to the BX. At a base were the nearest "small" community is over 45 minutes away from the base, and most base personnel do not have the "option" to go live down town.

  165. Your husband is so proud of you! You really contribute to his success in a big way!

    • Nobody believes a resume. Citations to accompany awards are at least more credible because they were not self-stated. But, your's is a read — not very good, but a read none the less.

      As for the irrelevant comment that most general officers like you:
      1. Self-stated
      2. News reports for the past year have devoted a lot of time and space to sexual charges against air farce officers for all kinds of fetishes. Is it possible that they simply like your feet in flip-flops?
      3. Who cares anyway?

  166. I have noticed that many of the proponents of this particular regulation have crossed the line as far as the community guidelines. Some not as far as others, but do you really think that telling spouses that their actions could potentially destroy their spouses' career (over a dress code no less); that spouses who don't assimilate should just get the heck off of "your" military base, because you somehow own it, but they don't; or calling a military spouse trash is really the image the military wants amongst their spouses, active duty members, or veterans. Really?! So instead of having a logical discussion, you resort to childish name calling. If this is what the members of the military have become, no thank-you. I would rather go to a military spouse web page that is supportive and helpful. Maybe 3/4 could stand to read the nice little commenting policy on the bottom of the page:

    "We welcome your comments on our blogs. We ask that you keep your comments on topic, socially acceptable and free from slander, personal attacks, threats, and discrimination. We will moderate and delete comments we find to be beyond acceptable, as well as comments containing phone numbers and email addresses. We will block commenting from users who abuse our policies. You can read the official User Agreement for more information."

  167. From a vet – If the (anal) powers-that-be demand this they should also demand that they clear up their own.
    Service people have it hard enough with their SO's missing them; they (and their SO's) should be allowed to vent/dress any way they want unless they're in combat. It's common sense.

  168. As far as military members go, you understood that you were to become a part of a professional organization where lives are on the line, a profession above all, facing killing machines unlike those that have not served will ever face but for a few rare occasions. I say this, if you are comfortable and have confidence in a doctor or dentist that comes in to perform some sort of surgery on you dressed like that, more power to you, but we professionals hold ourselves to a higher standard, not the CG, not the Garrison Commander and certainly not the Garrison CSM, IF yo have to be told how to dress appropriately off duty, which as you recall you are never off duty, you are a Soldier 24/7, perhaps you made a mistake and should go back to BK or what ever job you were getting away from when you joined this league of consummate professionals. If you have a spouse that does not support you in this awesome responsibility that you have chosen to undertake and have sworn an oath, perhaps you must honor your spouse and ask your 1SG to help you get out, I am a retired 1SG and know thats your first stop shop. IF you wish to remain and keep your spouse that cannot comply with this simple rule, move them off post and let them hang out in Barstow, they will fit right in in most places dressed like that. As Wolf 3B ancient, I understand the land there, and it is a great place, except for the people that have nothing better to do than knock the Army and our way of life.

    • They are not telling military members how to dress appropriately, these are for the SPOUSES and DEPENDENTS. People who NEVER signed up to be in the military in the first place. It is surely OK to ban flip flops, house shoes, and whatever the commander deems pajama bottoms. The regulations also states that dependents cannot wear tank tops/sleeveless tops (even with the bra hidden).

  169. I think some of these are good, but some are just stupid. We as wives did not join the military, so why should they be allowed to issue orders to us? When they are cutting back on everything and then expect us to dress up to make quick errands, I do not agree with that

    • I agree with you. There is no good reason to wear a shirt that has cuss words, or promotes violence and drugs, or wear clothing that shows too much of any private area of your body.

      I think that telling people they can't wear sleeveless clothing, running shoes and shorts, undefined length of shorts, flip flops, or pajama bottoms around base is going too far. I can understand if the base is on foreign soil and it is for the protection of the population to assimilate to foreign country, but there is no reason to do this in the United States of America.

      If my base did this, I would not shop at the BX or commissary. And one thing that the base commander has to put into consideration is the number of customers lost at the base exchange means money lost for MWR programs. So essentially he's shooting his MWR programs in the foot by enacting a ridiculous dress code. And obviously it is ridiculous, because why would people be complaining about it. If it were common sense and not arbitrary, then I guarantee you that 99% of the people against it would just say, "sounds good…"

  170. All I gotta say, is way to skewer the opposition. Instead of debating the point and making counter arguments based in facts, the proponents of this regulation have resorted to veil insults, threats, and calling people trash. If I were on the fence, I would probably lean towards against this regulation, because so many people are so keen to give up personal freedoms and volun-telling everyone to give up personal freedoms.

    I'm all for a regulation that is logical:
    – Banning offensive t-shirts
    – Banning clothing that shows parts I don't want my kids to see
    – Swim suits in places of business that don't include water

    Banning things like
    – doo rags (which have actually have a legitimate use and are not always a symbol of gang membership/activity)
    – what are house shoes? Slippers? If they are slippers, I have a pair of slippers that have a hard sole that I wear out and about a lot in the winter, because they are comfortable and easy to slip on. Flip flops? I can understand at the annual holiday party in the invitation stating no flip flops, but we live at a beach base, and unless it says semi-formal, I wear flip flops…
    – athletic clothing? I'm a stay at home mom and a runner? I don't own anything but athletic shorts, athletic tops, and besides my flip flops and one pair of dress shoes, all I ever wear is running shoes.
    – short shorts– who's judging the length of shorts? Are 4" inseams too short? 6" inseams? Is it universal?
    – pajamas? Can the person even tell the difference between pajama pants and yoga pants? I'm with the parents who have had a the flu go through the house on a deployment and I must go to the pharmacy which is co-located in the commissary to pick up a prescription. So after spending 6 hours in the middle of the night with a screaming kid at the clinic, I need to run home really quickly and change into non-pajama pants, so that I can get my child's medication.
    – worn clothing? What if I'm painting my house and run out of paint/supplies and since Ft. Irwin is kind of far from town, I run to the BX to pick up paint (yes, they sell paint there). So I should have to change out my torn, paint stained jeans to run really quick to get a refresh of supplies, because worn/dirty clothing is on the banned list?

    I can understand banning some of the clothing mentioned above in a foreign country, where we try to assimilate into a foreign culture as much as possible while visiting their country. But this is the United States of America, not Europe or the Middle East, and while I think that in 99% when I see someone walking around Walmart, the BX, or commissary in pajamas– I think laziness, but then I remember that one time I had to pick up medication after spending half the night in the ER.

  171. I'm surprised that people resent being told to dress appropriately. Do people really think pajama pants, see through garments, displays of underwear, bathing suits, slippers (which I think is what "house shoes" are) are appropriate to wear while shopping? Never mind super short shorts, skirts, etc. I am not a prude but military does hold its members and their dependents and bona fide guest to a higher standard than the civilian retail establishments. While I do think that the trend has moved away from "punishing" spouses for their other half's faux pas, it still can be a subtle, negative reflection. It may not be reflected on an efficiency report but if SGT Jones and SGT Smith are both great soldiers but one of them has a spouse who is a bit brash, doesn't like to follow protocol, isn't a team player, etc. guess who might get the more plum assignment? Sad but true. I think a great spouse helps a lot; much more than a "rebel" spouse hurts. BTW, this is the perspective of a retired National Guard soldier who spent a fair amount of time on and around active component during her 25 years.

  172. I love the way this user agreement works. I get called trash, a liar, and other offending names, and report them, but my posts are sent up to the "authorities" for permission to be posted. There is something seriously wrong with this.

    • the first mel | August 17, 2013 at 9:52 am |

      I have discovered on the site that the guidelines are subjective. What gets censored is up to the individual who is reviewing the posts. It's not always done because of specific words, it can be a statement that the admin considers personally offensive, even though it is actually just a difference in viewpoint. Also, I have noticed that if you are liked by the reviewing admin, you can get away with more when it comes to attacking other posters. I personally disagree with censorship and I have made my view known on this site. Not everyone in this world is nice and not everyone is going to agree with one another. That's the real world and someone will always be offended by something they read or hear. To avoid hurting any reader, one would have to stop being honest in their posts and just post what they think others would want to hear. I would rather be honest.

      • So would I, but then again, I'm being accused of being a liar, a troll, and trash. I deleted the post where I was called names. If the administrators are not going to do anything about it, then I will.

        • sabrinacking | August 17, 2013 at 4:14 pm |

          I found I can be called "disturbed" and that I have "psychological issues" but then I can't turn around and tell that person to shove it up their…ya know…or I get censored LOL. I think they have several moderators, and each has a different censorship rule of thumb.

          • It is ironic how it works.

            The really scary thing about this particular thread is that no one can disagree with clothing ban or the commander. That's really terrifying to me. And that psychology is the reason many of the military have a hard time adjusting to life outside of the military, that there are so many scandals within the military, and that so many of the commanders fall in disgrace.

            So to all who agree with ban, let's just agree to disagree. I'm done with pointless arguing…

  173. this is insane. sounds like they some nut evangelical preacher, fed him some crazy mushrooms, locked him in a closet and was told; make a dress code for the people of north korea and we will; as a joke, force the military and their family to live by these rules. want that be fun. FOOLS

  174. If you don't respect you or your spouses occupation and what it represents, then get the h— out of the service.

  175. I do not understand the problem. No one should ever dress in the public like any of those pictures. Such dress shows the person has no respectful or value for themselves. Once the person is out of the service and no longer serving our country they can degrade themselves as much as they like.

  176. Before Your Tine | August 17, 2013 at 6:26 pm |

    Back in the day (1985), I went to the commissary as a new spouse and I was informed by ID desk that if anyone felt my clothing was offensive the commissary reserved the right to ask me to leave. On that particular day I was wearing a midriff shirt and running shorts.

    It is disgusting the attire the youth of America choose to wear. If you want the PRIVILEGE of living on base and patronizing it’s facilities, dress appropriately.

  177. If you don't like the rules then don't shop or live on post. You are on a military installation and think you can do what you want. That is why I've never lived on post and I never will. I also don't shop on post unless I'm already there at work. I will go in uniform but I'd rather shop and live off post so that I don't have to look at my senior command every day. When I'm home I can sleep in without morning reveille and I can go outside in my pjs. If you still live on post then you've accepted this rule and have no room to be mad.

  178. What about the spouses that have medical conditions …I can't even wear shoes half the time and my skin is always open so I wear flip flops or soft shoes to be apart of my day to day living what do they have to say about that. I have a skin disease that has affected my whole body. I want to stay independent but for medical reasons what do they do for us!!!!!

  179. I LOVE IT! Everyone should dress decently! I hate seeing anyones underware or parts that should be covered! I wish the AF would follow suit. The few times a month I visit though, the only thing I have seen that I dont agree with is, the visable tatoos!

  180. Dress codes are appropriate for military and those who use the facilities on or off base/post – they normally have followed the norms of society. Lately, the way people dress in this country is appalling. Ask the question of yourself, would you allow your 5 year old child to see someone dressed like that or would you want your 16 year old son seeing young women dressed in that manner? I am not saying that everyone needs to start wearing dark clothing from head to toe, but people, use some common sense when going out – dress the way you want when you are in your yard or quarters. The bottom line – use common sense which this country seems to be loosing nowadays

  181. Parents-start parenting! You are on a military installation, not down in the hood. Start dressing and acting like patriots, not gang bangers. Have some pride and honor or leave the military.

  182. It's amazing to me how many 'touchy-feeley' morons are out there undermining the military at every turn. Pretty soon the SEALs won't be allowed weapons, cuz that might hurt some terrorists' feelings. Where will it end?

    If you're on a military installation, you're under military rules, even spouses and kids-PERIOD. Start being responsible for yourself and your children.

  183. I was in the service and I agree 100% === just wish the schools had these policies!!! Our society has gone to hell in a handbasket because of all the PC crap…….how about getting back to some good old-fashioned common sense!!!!!!!!!

  184. While I agree with the majority that a dress code on a military base infers the privilege of living there, I do wonder how this plays out now that open homosexuality is now allowed since DADT was eliminated, and DOMA is about to go away as well. I mean, if ethical or moral considerations are the reason why the dress code is seen as fit and proper, then where do those ethics and morality come from? We in the civilian world hear about military chaplains being muzzled, not being able to pray in His name, being forced to conduct gay marriages, so guess I'm confused as to what or why, other than external decorum, this is being promulgated?

  185. Walt Harrison | August 18, 2013 at 10:19 pm |

    I served as a pilot in the Airforce from 1955 to 1985. Dress regulations required that we wear uniform of the day to and from work and change into flight suits at the flight line duty station. In the early days we could not leave the flight line in a flight suit,period! In the 1960's rules were less restrictive but under no circumstances could we wear flight suits off base in public. Fatigues were also forbiden off base in public….no stopping to pick up anything on the way home. One evening I was denied entry to the base theater because my nicely pressed new shirt did not have a collar! As for the ladies, women were not allowed in the BX, commissary, or theater in PANTS!Skirts only! Despite these restrictions we never considered complaining because we were a military family living on a military installation. The base commander set the rules and we abided. You all give up some personal liberties when you join the military. In my humble opinion dress code at Ft.Irwin is not overly restrictive.

  186. this is a good wake up call . where have proper dress and manners gone? I am retired military/
    100% disabled veteran . last month was shopping at navy exchange and couldn't move out
    of the way for a uniformed military personnel.(bad foot problem.) well if I didn't move , he would
    of plowed into me. and not a excuse me, sorry please. nothing. perhaps a few classes on manners
    and proper dress may not be so out of line. for what I am seeing-it's a lost art.

    • Same could be said for the retired person who followed me around the commissary, because I parked in his "handicapped spot", and that me and my autistic epileptic son didn't look "disabled." There are rude entitled young people and there are rude entitled old people. Manners it appears are lost art on just about everyone. I blame the internet.

  187. sharpshooterjim | August 19, 2013 at 9:26 am |

    As I am a person, who often disagrees with government action, I must agree with them this time. 1. Military people should look sharp, whenever they dress. 2. If you want to be a hood, get out of the Military. 3. Not everyone wants to see your butt crack. 4. Do you realize how stupid you look with your hat on sideways or backwards. You wear your hair backwards, when you are in a lot of wind. Do rags don't belong on an Army installation. As far as the women's dressing apparel, I would be the first to tell you, that i love to see short shorts, midriffs, and bikini's on women whose bodies are attractive in them. But I don't feel, that on a Military base, 40 miles from a town, with mostly men on site, I'm sure there are some horny men. And enticing them can only lead to disasters.

  188. Dan R. USN Ret | August 19, 2013 at 9:36 am |

    I like it!

  189. Bob Theisman | August 19, 2013 at 10:00 am |

    In the late 70's I remember as a teen just getting my driver's licence. I was forced to drive my Mother to the commissary for her weekly food shopping. I noticed a woman in her late 20's walking by with a see through blouse with no bra. Every male in the facility including employees of the commissary followed her around trying to get a view of her. I was surprised that management said nothing or asked her to leave.

  190. When I was a dependent and if we were to get in trouble it would reflect on my dad, and not only would he be in trouble but we would be in trouble as well. So I applaud this man, act right..

  191. Eric Moeller | August 19, 2013 at 2:59 pm |

    Why did these things ever become acceptable. You wouldn't have gotten half-way in the main gate when I was in dressed in that crap without getting corrected. We should dress in a way that represents our military in a positive light and shows we have more respect and bearing than then average civilian and if the spouse doesn't like it they can go back home to mommy!!! Semper Fi

  192. I live here, almost have for an entire year now. These have been put up recently and of course I have noticed. I don't agree with some of these:baseball cap backwards, a lot of people have always worn them backwards, whats wrong with it??; houseshoes/pajamas, so what if you wear them in public? it's your decision, thats all i wore while pregnant, and when i decide to have another baby, i will wear it again regardless of the rules; short-shorts/short skirts, I don't know how many of you live here but damn! it's gets into triple digits everyday during the summer, in the desert, its hot! I'm going to wear short-shorts and skirts out in the 116 degree heat. Given I will not be wearing bootyshorts or showing off my underwear or butt, I agree those are offensive anywhere; torn/cut/worn clothing, it's popular! that's stylish and fashionable now, stores sell cut and torn jeans and worn clothing. I think it should be like a school dress code for those, no cuts or torn above mid-thigh. those would be acceptable they aren't showing anything; and lastly the tanktops, tanktops are my husbands relaxed clothing, he has a drawer full of them and he's gonna have a hard time going anywhere if he isn't allowed to wear them, I don't understand what is wrong with wearing tanktops? I mean does that include sleeveless tops for women? Same thing. But the rest I agree with, people going out showing off underwear and walking around trying to look "ganster" are offensive and downright stupid. No one wants to see all that. But we're all out of school, I don't want a dresscode for my adult life. Every spouse and soldier ought to know what is acceptable to wear in public, especially on base.

  193. Let's see here, what are other big issues besides the "right to wear" what you want? Sexual harrassment comes to mind. Rape is another. And while we're at it, let's toss in divorce. As human beings, we are all subject to giving in to our carnal nature and just doing whatever our lustful taste so desires. Then we wonder why this matter of attempting to enforce a new dress code becomes a reality, that troubles a lot of us. Is our egotistical pride the reason we don't want to be told how to dress? After all, its not like we as military personnel aren't used to that already.
    Thing is, this is not just a military matter. Just look at the stats in civilian life. Sexual harrassment. Rape, both reported and not. Domestic violence. Divorce. Teens do what they've seen in their moms and dads [if they have one, that is]. All because people are simply giving in to what their carnal appetites want.
    Self respect begins with self-control. Plus, learning how to build relationships is about love, and is far more important than being overly concerned with what both men and women choose to wear; and exposing lots of skin does tend to trigger sexual aggressiveness.

    • Blame the victim much? I suppose when I was harassed at work as a young lieutenant it was because my uniform showed just too much skin to illicit sexual aggression. We all know how sexy a woman looks in BDUs with the sleeves down?

      Maybe spouses don't want to be told what to wear because every other aspect of our lives is controlled by the military. We are told where to live, we sacrifice our careers, we are now told how to dress. And God forbid you disagree with anyone in the military.

      • ProperNavyWife | August 30, 2013 at 3:33 am |

        You were most likely harassed because you're attractive. The real question is, did you retort back with venom and stand up for yourself, or go cry to their superior?

  194. This is the military, which represents the true believers of American pride. We should not have to tell someone how to dress if they are really proud of who they are and represent. Living on base is a privledge which should not be taken for granted, and yes there are such things as RULES and REGULATIONS that must be adhered to. If you want to live like a civilian then get the hell out!

  195. I was an Army Brat in the early 50's and all posts required a coat and tie to enter theaters. My, how far we have come.

  196. Since most of the "Banned" items are readily available at the Post Exchange I have a hard time with this type of dress code enforcement for non-military spouses and children. I served in the U.S. ARMY to defend the constitution, which protects free speech, that also includes one's attire. I can remember when I was stationed at Ft. Campbell, KY active-duty military were prohibited from wearing BDUs off Post except to pick-up necessities on the way home from work. Ft Campbell even went so far to have CSMs patrol off Post stores to enforce this, violators were made to attend the Post's CSM School for Soldiers on Saturdays, this was eventually thrown out as unfair punishment and the CSMs were allowed to manage their units instead of being a uniform code cop. Enforcing PT attire is one thing, who wants to stand in close proximity to a smelly Soldier after PT, but who is going to go around now enforcing this "Regulation" instead of performing normal Soldier duties!

  197. CSM Perez===Glad to see some one to put out a decent dress code. Backward and sidesaddle hats are in most cities a sign of a certain gang member. I was once stationed at Fort Irwin, and enjoyed it. Keep up the good work.
    SGM Frank

  198. Welcome to the rules the USMC lives by every day you whiners!!!

  199. Still want to be a part of the elite, all volunteer 1% of the US population in the US military? Then step up and keep the pride that needs to go along with the job. For every installation there is a sign you pass as you enter, reminding you that it is a US Military installation and by entering you agree to all of the rules and regulations of the installation. Read the sign. It also goes so far to let you know that they can search you and your possessions at any time, not just as you enter the gate. Same rule for everyone, civilian and military. By entering, you agree to abide by the rules. If you do not agree, then do not go on that installation! Seems pretty simple. The gate is opening wider for anyone wishing to leave.

  200. Looks like most of the people commenting understand what it means to be on a Military Installation. The Commander has the right to set policies as they see fit. If you don't like it get out or just stay off base! Part of Military Bearing is being obedient to rules and regulations, if this upsets you how will you react if we are in a situation that demands complete trust in your superior and you can't follow them? Grow up and stop whining! And to the spouses, sorry but you have to follow regulations on installations too! If not your spouse can be held accountable!

  201. Welcome to the military,spouses. You go where they go and do what they do. It's called Uniform Code of Military Justice. I think it's great the bases have a dress code.

  202. It's sad they will waste money on posters and trying to keep people within dress code. I understand that most of the examples on the poster are plain common sense! Who walks in the store with short shorts and showing their midriff, showing their underwear, or wearing a swimsuit? I think any self respecting person would have common sense about what is appropriate to wear out but to impose this on spouses and dependents is just stupid. We have bigger things to worry about than what the hell someone is wearing.

  203. Back when I was in the Marine Corps we didn't have this problem. Pants with belt loops will have a belt, NO PT gear, no muscle shirts, bathing suits etc etc, and for the rest of you We DO NOT WEAR CAMMYS off base!!!!!!!!! Present and project a professional image, everyone Mommy and the kids too. I recall a few years ago when my older son took his younger brother to the PX, after he changed out of his "JOE DIRT" cloths……. wife beater t shirt, ripped jeans and backwards hat…….his reply was I ain't in the Marine Corps….to which the reply was…..I AM and we present a good image!! You want freedom to dress as you want, become a civilian again. As far as wives/husbands/kids not being in the military, true don't like it? You are free to shop out in the ville for all your needs. To this day even after I got out of the Marine Corps if I was running to the hardware store I cleaned up some, and the kids? ALWAYS clean and presentable the image you project is what you are judged on.

  204. SGM SMITH (RET) | August 28, 2013 at 8:44 am |

    I feel the CSM and the CMD should be concerned more about the threat of bath saltz and other drugs that are ripping the foundation of our young soldiers. I believe that people have th rights to wear whatever makes them comfortable and the commisary should have the rights to deny them access. Leave the family members attire to be policed by the service member. This is the stupidest policy that I have ever heard of…Oh yea, I am retired SGM with 26 years.

  205. The cry babies of the modern military. just because they are volunteers, they think that the country need them. You volunteer knowing the rules and to obey the rules. That's all the rules, not only the ones you want to. You want to look like something you're not, return to civilain life.

  206. The fact of the matter is you are on a military installation not a public beach as for a spouse or chid you are held responsible for the action of family members when you are in the military if you or your spouse have problems posing a decent adult image maybe you should find a profession where a proper image and professional standards are not an issue, standards and proper decorum should not be jeporadized.

  207. For the individual who wears his pants low & thinks that he has class. WELL, your class is showing that it is in your a—.!
    If you don't like being part of a classy organization, get out. Don't embarrass your soldier, your commander, your country.
    If you are looking for sympathy, look it up in the dictionary, it is between S–t & syphilis.

  208. This reminds me of the US Army in Vietnam; they got to the point that they had too many personnel so they created "Courtesy Patrols" to harass the troops that were not in full and complete uniform. The CP's tried to pull their BS on Navy personnel and were usually told to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. The Navy personnel that were in Nam were there to do a job and they did it damn well. We may have acted like pirates or McHales Navy, but we were a damn good bunch.

  209. Some of this makes since and some don't. That's this is what happens when they build a post in the middle of no where and people are forced to live on post and have to follow stupid rules. Makes no damn sense I can understand the sagging pants, revealing undergarments , and wearing underwear as outward and even the doo rags. But telling someone how to wear a hat really, pajamas and how can you tell someone what is and isn't house shoes, and the exposed midriff first of its so darn hot in this damn place. Workout outfits and thin and short most of the time. Torn pant. -.-' well I can see the ones that show butt cracks I can understand but is seeing someone's knees that serious. I can understand this and then question some. As adults you should know what not to wear and what is acceptable. But find something more serious to put like how unorganized this place is.

  210. Not just increasing our Tricare as of Oct 1st 20013 my wife and I lost our PCM who was 18 miles away and now to keep Tricare Prime. Of course we could change to Tricare extra or standard and pay much more for less. After working with Tricare we found a new PCM 56 miles away from our home, not a problem now at 57 years old but in a few years that may make the price of fuel the least of our worry's or if there is bad weather. Every one I have talked to about this says it has been planed for 4 years now that the General in charge of Tricare decided to change it now but we know who he works for.Vet

  211. It has been my intention to write about this subject for sometime now. The article below has provoked an inner resentment that has been simmering for more than a decade. The issue is the American Dress Code, or lack thereof and how it has deteriorated to a state where everyone has come to some conclusion that they must to look like rag-a-muffins to be in style. The ideas and the "Look" and how it originated is well understood, starting with the "Hippie Generation" and the far left. In addition to dressing down, that whole movement has destroyed the english language, that issue is for another day.

    Back to the issue at hand. It is obvious that the look that is most projected is the "Intimidation Look" where the hair and clothing are worn to rattle the average person and keep them at a distance. Unfortunately, and with the assistance of Hollywood, the media and the far left race baiters the dress code is now based on a third world poverty appearance, dirty T-shit baggy shorts and flip-flops.

    Lets go back a few years to the '60's, children went to school looking clean, with little girls in dresses, boys in pants, a blazer and such. Men went to work with a suit and tie if they worked in the office, if they worked in the factory they had appropriate work clothes. Even the milk man wore a white outfit with a tie. It seems that people had more self respect and wanted to present themselves to the public in way that showed that they cared about their appearance. Housewives would do most of the shopping and would not ever consider going out without getting dressed and would never consider going out in their pajamas or worse.

    The socialist and Far Left infiltrated the schools slowly and in multi pronged attacks, they proposed and supported "JEANS" Day back in the early 60's, usually promoted by the sleaze types of the school trying to make a rebellious statement and acquiesced to by the establishment of the school system, thinking it was a fade that would go away.

    Over time this lead to the present state of the NON DRESS CODE where kids will shot a peer to steal their high price sneakers to be worn with their torn knee ripped up Jeans and raggedy hoddie. Kids of today don't know what getting dressed up means. Most of the time they don't even need to change for halloween, they already scare the hell out of people.

    While all this seemly innocent change was happening the Teachers union started to back fill positions of authority School boards and Superintendents with trained Left Wing zealots, and dressed accordingly. That brings us to the present day educational system that has decimated the traditional syllabus over time and now evolves into the Agenda 21 program called "Common Core" where the kids will be programed rather than educated.

    Back to the subject, if we look back to the 60's and 70's on the protocol for the Military and its dress code on and off Post, it wasn't strict and it didn't have to be. The rules were if you were off Post, you wore either your Class A uniform or appropriate civilian attire, no jeans. You were allowed to ware civilian attire on base if you were not on duty, and you could ware your work uniforms, fatigues or BDU's in your car when driving home if you lived off Post. Simple, as for a spouse going to the commissary, PX or any function on Post, there was no need for a policy, they would not go out unless they were properly dressed. They did not want to bring embarrassment to their husband or themselves.

    If you were assigned overseas, say in Germany or Japan, the dress code was a suit and tie off Post. People enjoyed getting dressed to go to town, have dinner or go to a club. Being dressed brings out the better side of folks, they are less likely to be involved in confrontations or other behavior that would be frowned on by the Military code of conduct.

    The article makes mention of a woman that says, "I never wore pajamas around post until I was pregnant". What in Gods name has pregnancy have to do with parading around in pajamas, aren't they for waring to bed. What happened to maternity clothes. Woman use to be modest and wore comfortable clothes during this private affair. Now they tramp around with their underwear on the outside and leaving very little to the imagination.

    No one is expecting anyone to put on a party dress to go to the commissary, but buffing up a little surely will help with self respect, the same goes when you have to drag the kids along too, they should be appropriately dressed too.

    Laziness and lack of accountability is a huge part of this equation, we hear so much complaining about life in the military, instead of complaining, start looking the part, it's easy. Remember you have elected to serve your country and your country wants to be proud of every one of you, that includes your spouse and kids. If the military will adopt sensible attire and be the example, perhaps we will see a change for the better in a nation wide improved Dress Code.

    Enough said, the Command Sgt. Major Perez is right on and hopefully will be supported on the issue. What none of us need is more regulations telling us how to be decent people. Just Do It.

  212. I remember back in the day we couldn't wear curlers in our hair when going shopping. I love it, get over it n take some pride in yourself be it civilian or military. Now to get fans to wear t-shirts at sporting events n no alcohol.

  213. When I was in the Navy in the 80's, I had to wear shorts & tank tops around base due to severe injuries. I had to have someone help me get dressed. Shorts were the only thing we could get over my cast which went from my toes to the top of my hip. I had dislocated a shoulder and had a spinal injury which made getting a bra on impossible. I remember some jerk LTJG screaming at me when I went to the PX to get food. Had to pay someone to drive me and push the cart while I gimped about on crutches. He had the gall to tell me that I was a disgrace and shouldn't be in public dressed like a whore and I was a sick bay commando. By the way I was injured in the line of duty. I agree that people need to dress better both on & off base, but don't harass the person who stops by the commissary after the gym to pick up a couple of items; or the pregnant women who can't find decent maternity wear; or the injured who might need to wear "unacceptable items" because of casts, drain tubes, colostomy bags, etc.

  214. I think every post and base should enforce this. I hate seeing body parts that should only be seen at home, and underware because the pants are belted at the knees. You are in the military, or retired, or a spouse. There was a contract. You are a representitave for the US Government. Most young people seem to have no common sense, that's all it is ., common sense. Keep up the posters, and make it world wide. My grandson DOES NOT need to see what's under a see thru shirt on a woman, or that its OK to buckle your pants at your knees because you have shorts or briefs under them. He's only 6.

  215. The Base commander is responsible for his territory and I was told I can't speed on base, I can't set up my own store and sell anything I want, I can't have hazordous materials in my house or barracks, so why can't he tell me how to dress and refuse access to the Base of anyone who dosen't want to conform to the rules. I can't walk around the base NUDE, so, where do you draw the line. I compliment the commander for restoring wisdom to protecting the right of people who are offended by bad behavior.

  216. Im all for it. I understand the policy, you are on a military installation, if you dont like it get the hell out or off post. We are professionals and we represent the United States not the shrine circus or Taylor, Michigan. And why on earth would anyone wear thier pants saggy is beyond me that originated in prison.

  217. The only time I have ever gone on post in my "pajamas" was at three am for a cigarette run (although I live off post and avoid going on post). And by "pajamas", I mean a pair of black sweats and a hoodie. Although I dislike the idea that they're delegating what we can and can't wear – I didn't sign on the dotted line, thanks – I follow these general clothing rules, not because I'm told to, but because I know what's appropriate for the setting I'm in and because my behavior and attire reflects on my husband. The same way that I would expect him to behave and dress appropriately if the situation were flipped and I was enlisted and he was my civilian spouse. I think of it as a common courtesy for my husband's career and less of an order I'm following.

    Although I've never had anyone comment on my attire as being inappropriate either so..

  218. I believe there is limitations on what anyone wears in public. OK should we have the right to wear what we want ? yes within limits. Not everyone wants to see butt checks stickin out when you bend over or see breasts out. hairy armpits when we eat food. come on now. Its time to be responsible about what we wear and when…You dont wear club clothes to grocery store..Dont want little kids seeing body parts in store just because someone wants wear a swimsuit top into a store.. there is limitaions and when and where to wear certain attire..its just( RESPECT) to others

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